If I was...

[Xakero]

Adesso è ufficiale: "If I was...I would...", pronunciato dal principe
William in un'intervista, trasmessa dalla CNN un attimo fa. Sprecati, tutti
questi soldi per la sua educazione.

Sto piangiendo...

[AnnaBianca]

Post by Xakero
Adesso è ufficiale: "If I was...I would...", pronunciato dal principe
William in un'intervista, trasmessa dalla CNN un attimo fa. Sprecati, tutti
questi soldi per la sua educazione.

Ben due volte http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4026131.stm c'e' anche il video,
oltre che al transcript.

A me pero' nei corsi di inglese in Inghilterra hanno detto che "if I was" si
puo' dire...

[Enrico C]

Post by AnnaBianca

Post by Xakero
Adesso è ufficiale: "If I was...I would...", pronunciato dal principe
William in un'intervista, trasmessa dalla CNN un attimo fa. Sprecati, tutti
questi soldi per la sua educazione.

Ben due volte http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4026131.stm c'e' anche il video,
oltre che al transcript.
A me pero' nei corsi di inglese in Inghilterra hanno detto che "if I was" si
puo' dire...

I was told the same by an English teacher in an English course, still "if I
were" [where needed] sounds more correct to my ears.

[joscurtin]

Post by Enrico C

Post by AnnaBianca

Post by Xakero
Adesso è ufficiale: "If I was...I would...", pronunciato dal principe
William in un'intervista, trasmessa dalla CNN un attimo fa.

Sprecati,

Post by Enrico C

Post by AnnaBianca

Post by Xakero
tutti
questi soldi per la sua educazione.

Ben due volte http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4026131.stm c'e' anche il video,
oltre che al transcript.
A me pero' nei corsi di inglese in Inghilterra hanno detto che "if I was" si
puo' dire...

I was told the same by an English teacher in an English course, still "if I
were" [where needed] sounds more correct to my ears.

I agree.

Joe from Massachusetts

[Alan Lothian]

Post by AnnaBianca
A me pero' nei corsi di inglese in Inghilterra hanno detto che "if I was" si
puo' dire...

be' "si puo' dire". Basta aprire la bocca e si puo' dire qualsiasi
cosa. Xak ha ragione. Ma non e' solamente la colpa del giovane
principe. Qui in GB c'e' una forza formidabile contra la buona
educazione -- sia nel senso italiano, sia nel senso inglese, tradotto
letterariamente.

Alan "Old Fart" Lothian

[Amleto, il danese]

"AnnaBianca" <***@katamail.com>

if I were him I would have killed myself

Post by AnnaBianca
A me pero' nei corsi di inglese in Inghilterra hanno detto che "if I was" si
puo' dire...

Sì, ma è brutto, e come dire da noi: se ero in te non lo facevo (e ci
arriveremo, tranquilli...arrghh)

Amleto, il danese (purista).

[Roberto]

Post by Amleto, il danese
if I were him I would have killed myself

Post by AnnaBianca
A me pero' nei corsi di inglese in Inghilterra hanno detto che "if I was"

si

Post by AnnaBianca
puo' dire...

Sì, ma è brutto, e come dire da noi: se ero in te non lo facevo (e ci
arriveremo, tranquilli...arrghh)
Amleto, il danese (purista).

Benvengano le semplificazioni nella lingua. Tutte le lingue cambiano
con il tempo, e' un processo inevitabile. Cio' che non andava bene
ieri puo andare bene oggi e cio' che non va bene oggi puo' andare bene
domani. Le lingue sono piene di inutili dettagli e formalismi. God
bless change!

[Enrico C]

Post by Roberto

Post by Amleto, il danese
if I were him I would have killed myself

Post by AnnaBianca
A me pero' nei corsi di inglese in Inghilterra hanno detto che "if I was"

si

Post by AnnaBianca
puo' dire...

Sì, ma è brutto, e come dire da noi: se ero in te non lo facevo (e ci
arriveremo, tranquilli...arrghh)
Amleto, il danese (purista).

Benvengano le semplificazioni nella lingua. Tutte le lingue cambiano
con il tempo, e' un processo inevitabile. Cio' che non andava bene
ieri puo andare bene oggi e cio' che non va bene oggi puo' andare bene
domani. Le lingue sono piene di inutili dettagli e formalismi. God
bless change!

But the original poster didn't ask "Is that change right or wrong?". He
asked whether that expression "si può dire". In other words, how do
contemporary native English speakers react to it.
I *think* the answer is to that question would be: yes you can use it, it's
very common indeed in informal speech, but avoid it in formal writing /
communication, because it sounds "sloppy" to quite a few people and might
therefore be frowned upon.

[Amleto, il danese]

"Roberto" <***@aol.com> ha scritto nel messaggio Le lingue sono piene
di inutili dettagli e formalismi. God

Post by Roberto
bless change!

Non sono daccordo, per me non ci capiremo più, la lingua è strumento
principe della trasmissione e creazione dell'intelligenza, semplificarlo
vuol dire distruggere questa e quella.
Nota tra l'altro che tutte le persone intelligenti hanno un eloqui complesso
e preciso, la matematica stessa è un eloqui complesso, preciso, definito,
lasciamo agli scaricatori di porto e a quelli con QI sotto 80 a parlare in
maniera scialba e vacua, ma non facciamo mai il panegirico
dell'abbruttimento.

Amleto.

[FB]

Post by Xakero
Adesso è ufficiale: "If I was...I would...", pronunciato dal principe
William in un'intervista, trasmessa dalla CNN un attimo fa.

Sure it wasn't "If I was late for school, I wouldn't even get up"? In that
case it would be correct.

Post by Xakero
Sprecati, tutti questi soldi per la sua educazione.

Do you think he prefers golf to university in St Andrews?

Post by Xakero
Sto piangiendo...

If I was there (and I don't know in what part of the globe you are), I
would try to comfort you. At any rate, I think he was trying to be
ordinary... It must be a problem for a prince to watch tv and know how the
real world is.

I'd be interested to hear how a young exponent of the royal family speaks;
the accent, I mean.


Bye, FB

[Mary Cassidy]

Post by FB
Sure it wasn't "If I was late for school, I wouldn't even get up"? In that
case it would be correct.

It would? How?

[FB]

Post by Mary Cassidy

Post by FB
Sure it wasn't "If I was late for school, I wouldn't even get up"? In that
case it would be correct.

It would? How?

"If I was late for school (when I was, say, 16), I usually didn't even get
up".


Bye, FB

[Tony the ice man]

Post by FB

Post by Mary Cassidy

Post by FB
Sure it wasn't "If I was late for school, I wouldn't even get up"? In
that case it would be correct.

It would? How?

"If I was late for school (when I was, say, 16), I usually didn't even get
up".

When you were late for school, you wouldn't even get up? That would explain
your grammar.

[Nebo]

Post by FB
"If I was late for school (when I was, say, 16), I usually didn't even get
up".

Allora non è un'ipotetica :-)
*when* I was...

Nebo

[AnnaBianca]

Post by FB
I'd be interested to hear how a young exponent of the royal family speaks;
the accent, I mean.

Guarda il video dell'intervista http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4026131.stm

Che ne pensi dell'accento?

[FB]

Post by AnnaBianca

Post by FB
I'd be interested to hear how a young exponent of the royal family speaks;
the accent, I mean.

Guarda il video dell'intervista http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4026131.stm

Sincerely, I had a hard time following his speech sometimes: he talks so
fast.

Post by AnnaBianca
Che ne pensi dell'accento?

Rather ordinary, as far as I can tell. I would have expected a more usual
accent than his granny's, of course: a sort of "young" RP with a few
peculiarities. In my opinion he purposely speaks like that: I mean, he must
have been surrounded by people who spoke very well. Tutta colpa della
televisione! Do native speakers get any hint of his being part of the royal
family in the way he speaks? Something people don't do?
Is it common to say such words as "throw" with a very distinct flap [1]?

I wouldn't want to be him. Of course, he's not the person I pity the most
in the world, but he looks tense to me. On one hand, it's a very good thing
that he can lead a semi-normal life; on the other hand, he must know he's
bound to give it up sooner or later.


I think the British monarchy, luckily enough, is going to change a lot.

[1] A sort of Italian monovibrated "r".


Bye, FB

[Enrico C]

Post by FB

Post by AnnaBianca

Post by FB
I'd be interested to hear how a young exponent of the royal family speaks;
the accent, I mean.

Guarda il video dell'intervista http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4026131.stm

Sincerely, I had a hard time following his speech sometimes: he talks so
fast.

Post by AnnaBianca
Che ne pensi dell'accento?

Rather ordinary, as far as I can tell.

Agreed.

I would have expected a more usual

Post by FB
accent than his granny's, of course: a sort of "young" RP with a few
peculiarities.

As he says in the interview, he doesn't want to be noticed. He probably
just wants to sound "ordinry".

[Joey DoWop Dee]

Post by FB

Post by Xakero
Adesso è ufficiale: "If I was...I would...", pronunciato dal principe
William in un'intervista, trasmessa dalla CNN un attimo fa.

Sure it wasn't "If I was late for school, I wouldn't even get up"? In that
case it would be correct.

Are you *sure* of that? (I disagree, but I do consider myself somewhat of a
purist in this.)

"If I was late for school, I didn't realize it" would be okay.
"If I were late for school, I wouldn't get up" is okay.
"If I was late for school, I wouldn't get up" makes my ears curl.

[FB]

Post by Joey DoWop Dee

Post by FB

Post by Xakero
Adesso è ufficiale: "If I was...I would...", pronunciato dal principe
William in un'intervista, trasmessa dalla CNN un attimo fa.

Sure it wasn't "If I was late for school, I wouldn't even get up"? In that
case it would be correct.

Are you *sure* of that? (I disagree, but I do consider myself somewhat of a
purist in this.)
"If I was late for school, I didn't realize it" would be okay.
"If I were late for school, I wouldn't get up" is okay.
"If I was late for school, I wouldn't get up" makes my ears curl.

I'm afraid I overlook something. What's wrong in the third sentence,
supposing it means "quando ero in ritardo per andare a scuola, di solito
non mi alzavo" (it's not a conditional clause)? I don't suppose it's what
Prince William meant, but I still have to watch the interview.


Bye, FB

[Enrico C]

Post by FB
Prince William meant, but I still have to watch the interview.

The royal lad says a "you know" every ten words!

[FB]

Post by Enrico C

Post by FB
Prince William meant, but I still have to watch the interview.

The royal lad says a "you know" every ten words!

Basically, you're sort of right, you know.


Bye, FB

[Xakero]

Post by FB
Basically, you're sort of right, you know.

You know... like... I mean... Pensavo che tutto questo fosse roba di un
altra generazione ma vedo che la nuova generazione l'ha ereditata.

[Joey DoWop Dee]

Post by FB

Post by Joey DoWop Dee

Post by FB

Post by Xakero
Adesso è ufficiale: "If I was...I would...", pronunciato dal principe
William in un'intervista, trasmessa dalla CNN un attimo fa.

Sure it wasn't "If I was late for school, I wouldn't even get up"? In that
case it would be correct.

Are you *sure* of that? (I disagree, but I do consider myself somewhat of a
purist in this.)
"If I was late for school, I didn't realize it" would be okay.
"If I were late for school, I wouldn't get up" is okay.
"If I was late for school, I wouldn't get up" makes my ears curl.

I'm afraid I overlook something. What's wrong in the third sentence,
supposing it means "quando ero in ritardo per andare a scuola, di solito
non mi alzavo" (it's not a conditional clause)? I don't suppose it's what
Prince William meant, but I still have to watch the interview.
Bye, FB

If you mean "I wouldn't" in the sense of "I didn't regularly" then it's
okay, but the sentence sounds like the speaker doesn't know English all
that well. You are right, that it would depend on the context.

In that context, however, I would have said, "When I was late for school I
didn't get up."

[FB]

Post by Joey DoWop Dee

Post by FB

Post by Joey DoWop Dee
Are you *sure* of that? (I disagree, but I do consider myself somewhat of a
purist in this.)
"If I was late for school, I didn't realize it" would be okay.
"If I were late for school, I wouldn't get up" is okay.
"If I was late for school, I wouldn't get up" makes my ears curl.

I'm afraid I overlook something. What's wrong in the third sentence,
supposing it means "quando ero in ritardo per andare a scuola, di solito
non mi alzavo" (it's not a conditional clause)? I don't suppose it's what
Prince William meant, but I still have to watch the interview.

[...]

Post by Joey DoWop Dee
If you mean "I wouldn't" in the sense of "I didn't regularly" then it's
okay, but the sentence sounds like the speaker doesn't know English all
that well. You are right, that it would depend on the context.
In that context, however, I would have said, "When I was late for school I
didn't get up."

What makes my sentence not idiomatic?


Bye, FB

[Mary Cassidy]

Post by FB
What makes my sentence not idiomatic?

The use of "if" instead of "when", followed by "would", makes it sound
like a hypothetical clause, so the "was" sounds wrong.

Most native speakers would say something like "when I was late for
school I didn't bother getting up".

[Joey DoWop Dee]

Post by Mary Cassidy

Post by FB
What makes my sentence not idiomatic?

The use of "if" instead of "when", followed by "would", makes it sound
like a hypothetical clause, so the "was" sounds wrong.
Most native speakers would say something like "when I was late for
school I didn't bother getting up".

FB Listen to Mary; she knows whereof she speaks.

[Tony the ice man]

Post by Joey DoWop Dee

Post by Mary Cassidy
The use of "if" instead of "when", followed by "would", makes it sound
like a hypothetical clause, so the "was" sounds wrong.
Most native speakers would say something like "when I was late for
school I didn't bother getting up".

FB Listen to Mary; she knows whereof she speaks.

And I told you the same a couple of days ago, if in a way more tongue-in
cheek.

[FB]

Post by Joey DoWop Dee

Post by Mary Cassidy

Post by FB
What makes my sentence not idiomatic?

The use of "if" instead of "when", followed by "would", makes it sound
like a hypothetical clause, so the "was" sounds wrong.
Most native speakers would say something like "when I was late for
school I didn't bother getting up".

FB Listen to Mary;

I didn't doubt my sentence was wrong. I just wanted to know why.

Post by Joey DoWop Dee
she knows whereof she speaks.

Do you mean she didn't bother getting up when she was late for school? Do
turkeys go to school? Do they put up school plays for Christmas? Do they
sleep on a bed of chips? How on earth can you stuff them without fainting?


Bye, FB

[Joey DoWop Dee]

Post by FB
Do you mean she didn't bother getting up when she was late for school? Do
turkeys go to school? Do they put up school plays for Christmas? Do they
sleep on a bed of chips? How on earth can you stuff them without fainting?
Bye, FB

LOL. I know nothing of Mary's habits when she was in school, but no,
turkeys do not go to school (although fish hang out in them) nor do they
(turkeys) sleep on a bed of chips (but fish are sometimes served on same),
and as for stuffing them (turkeys) it helps if they're dead first. That
way, if you faint, they don't notice.

[joscurtin]

Post by Joey DoWop Dee

Post by FB
Do you mean she didn't bother getting up when she was late for school? Do
turkeys go to school? Do they put up school plays for Christmas? Do they
sleep on a bed of chips? How on earth can you stuff them without fainting?
Bye, FB

LOL. I know nothing of Mary's habits when she was in school, but no,

I think I know where Mary went to school. :>)
http://www.uq.net.au/~zzdmcana/StTrinians/

Joe from Massachusetts

[Mary Cassidy]

Post by joscurtin
I think I know where Mary went to school. :>)
http://www.uq.net.au/~zzdmcana/StTrinians/

Very funny. I did go to a girls' school, though.

[joscurtin]

Post by Mary Cassidy

Post by joscurtin
I think I know where Mary went to school. :>)
http://www.uq.net.au/~zzdmcana/StTrinians/

Very funny. I did go to a girls' school, though.

I went to a school which was, in effect, two separate schools - girls
on one side of the building, Church (RC) in the middle, and boys on
the other side of the building, all watched over by hawk-eyed nuns.
The two groups rarely met, but about one month before graduation, both
graduating classes were herded into the gymnasium, paired off, and
taught to dance so that we would be prepared for the "prom". Eight
years of total separation, then one day you are holding each other on
the dance floor, with the nuns watching every move. Cultural shock,
indeed!

Joe from Massachusetts

[ADPUF]

Post by Joey DoWop Dee

Post by FB
Do you mean she didn't bother getting up when she was
late for school? Do turkeys go to school? Do they put up
school plays for Christmas? Do they sleep on a bed of
chips? How on earth can you stuff them without fainting?

LOL. I know nothing of Mary's habits when she was in
school, but no, turkeys do not go to school (although fish
hang out in them) nor do they (turkeys) sleep on a bed of
chips (but fish are sometimes served on same), and as for
stuffing them (turkeys) it helps if they're dead first.
That way, if you faint, they don't notice.

Un ricordo di quando ero molto piccolo: [la] mia mamma che
ingozzava a forza un'oca piuttosto restia.

Non ricordo che fine fece la povera bestia, penso che abbia
contribuito alla mia crescita.

Grazie, oca.

[Mary Cassidy]

Post by FB
I don't suppose it's what
Prince William meant, but I still have to watch the interview.

Ti posso fare una piccola correzoine?

"I still have to watch the interview" significa "sono ancora obbligato a
guardare l'intervista".

Dovevi direi "I haven't watched the interview yet".

[Xakero]

Post by FB
If I was there (and I don't know in what part of the globe you are), I
would try to comfort you.

Il fumetto "The born loser" di ieri mi ha consolato, perché l'ha fatto
giusto:

Brutus: "Another birthday, another year older! But just think if I were a
car... I'd be considered a classic and be eligible for special historic
plates!"

Gladys: "If you were a car, you would be an Edsel!"
Source: http://snipurl.com/artz

Quel "Edsel" ha, per caso, un significato diverso dalla marca di
un'automobile d'epoca? O forse è semplicemente un riferimento obliquo alla
età di Brutus (la produzione dell'Edsel iniziò nel 1957)?

[joscurtin]

Post by Xakero

Post by FB
If I was there (and I don't know in what part of the globe you are), I
would try to comfort you.

Il fumetto "The born loser" di ieri mi ha consolato, perché l'ha fatto
Brutus: "Another birthday, another year older! But just think if I were a
car... I'd be considered a classic and be eligible for special

historic

Post by Xakero
plates!"
Gladys: "If you were a car, you would be an Edsel!"
Source: http://snipurl.com/artz
Quel "Edsel" ha, per caso, un significato diverso dalla marca di
un'automobile d'epoca? O forse è semplicemente un riferimento

obliquo alla

Post by Xakero
età di Brutus (la produzione dell'Edsel iniziò nel 1957)?
--

Edsel Ford was the only son of Henry Ford. The "Edsel" was named after
him. The car was unique, but did not sell well, and was considered a
failure. The point of the joke is that Brutus considers himself an old
"classic", but Gladys considers him an old failure, as the Edsel was.
http://www.fiftiesweb.com/pop/edsel.htm

Joe from Massachusetts

[Xakero]

Post by joscurtin
Edsel Ford was the only son of Henry Ford. The "Edsel" was named after
him. The car was unique, but did not sell well, and was considered a
failure. The point of the joke is that Brutus considers himself an old
"classic", but Gladys considers him an old failure, as the Edsel was.
http://www.fiftiesweb.com/pop/edsel.htm

Grazie. Così, capisco la battuta di Gladys.

[Enrico C]

Post by Xakero
Adesso è ufficiale: "If I was...I would...", pronunciato dal principe
William in un'intervista, trasmessa dalla CNN un attimo fa. Sprecati, tutti
questi soldi per la sua educazione.

Dunno Willy, but English tabloids said his brother was, ehr-- allegedly
"helped" a little when he was at school :)

[Nebo]

Post by Xakero
Adesso è ufficiale: "If I was...I would...", pronunciato dal principe
William in un'intervista, trasmessa dalla CNN un attimo fa. Sprecati, tutti
questi soldi per la sua educazione.
Sto piangiendo...

Diciamo che ormai è entrato nell'uso talmente tanto da essere accettato
in gran parte dei casi...un po' come da noi l'imperfetto sta
soppiantando il congiuntivo (purtroppo):

- se sapevo che reagivi così, non te lo dicevo
invece di
- se avessi saputo che avresti reagito così, non te l'avrei detto

(If I knew you would have that reaction, i wouldn't have told you that)

Nebo

[FB]

Post by Nebo
(If I knew you would have that reaction, i wouldn't have told you that)

Hai azzeccato la parte che non imbrocca nessuno, ma direi "If I had known"
("had I known").


Bye, FB

[Nebo]

Post by FB
Hai azzeccato la parte che non imbrocca nessuno, ma direi "If I had known"
("had I known").

Ups, ecc'hai raggione >_<

Nebo

[Enrico C]

Post by Nebo

Post by Xakero
Adesso è ufficiale: "If I was...I would...", pronunciato dal principe
William in un'intervista, trasmessa dalla CNN un attimo fa. Sprecati, tutti
questi soldi per la sua educazione.
Sto piangiendo...

Diciamo che ormai è entrato nell'uso talmente tanto da essere accettato
in gran parte dei casi...un po' come da noi l'imperfetto sta
- se sapevo che reagivi così, non te lo dicevo

That's used a lot in fast, informal speech, but it's definitely colloquial.

Post by Nebo
invece di
- se avessi saputo che avresti reagito così, non te l'avrei detto
(If I knew you would have that reaction, i wouldn't have told you that)
Nebo

[FB]

Post by Enrico C

Post by Nebo
Diciamo che ormai è entrato nell'uso talmente tanto da essere accettato
in gran parte dei casi...un po' come da noi l'imperfetto sta
- se sapevo che reagivi così, non te lo dicevo

That's used a lot in fast, informal speech, but it's definitely colloquial.

I avoid it as often as possible, but I find it's not much less than
necessary sometimes. Of course, I never use it in writing.


Bye, FB

[Nebo]

Post by FB
I avoid it as often as possible, but I find it's not much less than
necessary sometimes. Of course, I never use it in writing.

Nor do I (nor I do? I don't use it either?).

Nebo

[Joey DoWop Dee]

Post by Nebo

Post by FB
I avoid it as often as possible, but I find it's not much less than
necessary sometimes. Of course, I never use it in writing.

Nor do I (nor I do? I don't use it either?).
Nebo

Nor do I.
Neither do I.
I don't either.
(But not "I don't, too.)

Don't be confused if you hear "so don't I" to mean "so do I"; in some
regions it's common, although inexplicable.

I love ice cream!
So don't I! (I do, too; So do I; Me, too!)