migliorare la pronuncia

[camillo_b]

Ciao a tutti.
Potreste consigliarmi degli strumenti didattici (cd, dvd...) che mi
consentano di migliorare la mia pronuncia? Sapete se esistono dei
vocabolari multimediali con registrazioni della corretta pronuncia dei
lessemi?

Grazie

[Adam Atkinson]

Post by camillo_b
Ciao a tutti.
Potreste consigliarmi degli strumenti didattici (cd, dvd...) che mi
consentano di migliorare la mia pronuncia?

"English Pronunciation in Use" della Cambridge University Press

[Enrico C]

camillo_b | it.cultura.linguistica.inglese

Post by camillo_b
consentano di migliorare la mia pronuncia? Sapete se esistono dei
vocabolari multimediali con registrazioni della corretta pronuncia dei
lessemi?

Non specifichi se parli di dizionari bilingue o monolingua.
Per esempio l'Hazon-Garzanti Clicsu CD, bilingue, ha i file sonori
della pronuncia.
Anche l'Oxford Advanced Genie CD, monolingua.

Qui trovi anche alcuni dizionari online gratuiti con pronuncia.
http://wiki.news.nic.it/DizionariItCulturaLinguisticaInglese

[camillo_b]

On 18 Aug 2004 12:16:16 +0200, Enrico C

Post by Enrico C
camillo_b | it.cultura.linguistica.inglese

Post by camillo_b
consentano di migliorare la mia pronuncia? Sapete se esistono dei
vocabolari multimediali con registrazioni della corretta pronuncia dei
lessemi?

Non specifichi se parli di dizionari bilingue o monolingua.
Per esempio l'Hazon-Garzanti Clicsu CD, bilingue, ha i file sonori
della pronuncia.
Anche l'Oxford Advanced Genie CD, monolingua.
Qui trovi anche alcuni dizionari online gratuiti con pronuncia.
http://wiki.news.nic.it/DizionariItCulturaLinguisticaInglese

Mi sapresti dire se i file sonori dei CD di cui mi parli sono semplici
voci sinth o se invece si tratta di registrazioni di un madrelingua?
(sono interessato solo a quest'ultima tipologia).

Grazie

[Enrico C]

camillo_b | it.cultura.linguistica.inglese

Post by camillo_b
Mi sapresti dire se i file sonori dei CD di cui mi parli sono semplici
voci sinth o se invece si tratta di registrazioni di un madrelingua?
(sono interessato solo a quest'ultima tipologia).

L'Oxford Advanced Genie CD ha registrazioni di madrelingua, se non
erro, e riporta sia la pronuncia BrE che quella AmE, quando le due
pronunce divergono.

[FB]

Post by camillo_b
Potreste consigliarmi degli strumenti didattici (cd, dvd...) che mi
consentano di migliorare la mia pronuncia?

Io trovo utilissimi i dvd in genere, i film. Non è necessario, per la
pronuncia, ricorrere a strumenti didattici, secondo me. Dove puoi imparare
a pronunciare, bene, se non soprattutto dai bravi attori?
Poi, va da sé che dovrai scegliere quale pronuncia adottare.

Post by camillo_b
Sapete se esistono dei
vocabolari multimediali con registrazioni della corretta pronuncia dei
lessemi?

Inglese-italiano-inglese: sicuramente il Ragazzini ha la pronuncia,
britannica, di tutte le parole.

Inglese: Collins Dictionary for Advanced Learners (britannico).

Penso che quasi tutti i dizionari con cd abbiano la pronuncia registrata
delle parole. Il Picchi, che è molto apprezzato, non credo.


Ciao, FB

[Enrico C]

FB | it.cultura.linguistica.inglese

Post by FB
Inglese-italiano-inglese: sicuramente il Ragazzini ha la pronuncia,
britannica, di tutte le parole.

Non quello che ho io, pero` :/ il cd-rom Zanichelli-Ragazzini della
serie "I dizionari per sempre", preso in edicola con una rivista.

[Franco Tiratore]

Post by FB
Penso che quasi tutti i dizionari con cd abbiano la pronuncia registrata
delle parole. Il Picchi, che è molto apprezzato, non credo.

I'm searching for a good bilingual cd-rom dictionary...
You seem well informed about this topic, can I ask you some questions?
I don't mind pronunciation, I need the possibility to search for words
and example sentences too. The ideal solution would be a classic
dictionary with example sentences and the possibility to search
throughout the whole dictionary. Do you suggest "Picchi" dictionary?
Can it be easily used in a Windows environment? Can fast searches be
done? Is there the possibility to activate the dictionary with a right
click feature or something like that?

Ciao
Franco

[FB]

Post by Franco Tiratore
I don't mind pronunciation, I need the possibility to search for words
and example sentences too. The ideal solution would be a classic
dictionary with example sentences and the possibility to search
throughout the whole dictionary. Do you suggest "Picchi" dictionary?

As I prefer to have as many examples as possible, maybe I prefer the
Ragazzini (Zanichelli). The Picchi is perhaps more up-to-date, more modern
(you may find some idioms you didn't find in the Ragazzini), but perhaps
you have slightly fewer complete examples. I must say I seldom use it; I
trust somebody else can say more about it.

Post by Franco Tiratore
Can it be easily used in a Windows environment?

Yes.

Post by Franco Tiratore
Can fast searches be done?

I dont' know what "fast" means: I run Windows 2000 with 64 Mb Ram... Then
again, the Ragazzini should be positively faster.

Post by Franco Tiratore
Is there the possibility to activate the dictionary with a right
click feature or something like that?

I don't know, but I don't think so.


P.S. Should I have left out the article before "Ragazzini" and "Picchi"? I
never know how to handle this sort of names.


Bye, FB

[Franco Tiratore]

Post by FB
As I prefer to have as many examples as possible, maybe I prefer the
Ragazzini (Zanichelli). The Picchi is perhaps more up-to-date, more modern
(you may find some idioms you didn't find in the Ragazzini), but perhaps
you have slightly fewer complete examples. I must say I seldom use it; I
trust somebody else can say more about it.

Is yours a suggestion to buy them both? ^_^
Since I prefer to have a wide variety of examples, I think I'll go for
the Ragazzini. Probably I will buy also the Picchi in the future...
Speaking about the Ragazzini, is it handy to use? Better or worse than
the Picchi? I have read an old faq of this newsgroup (maybe the one
hosted on TheRealm site, not sure) and it states that the Picchi
hasn't got a functional interface or good integration with the
operating system.

Ciao
Franco

[FB]

Post by Franco Tiratore
Since I prefer to have a wide variety of examples, I think I'll go for
the Ragazzini. Probably I will buy also the Picchi in the future...

I've tried to use the Picchi these days, and I'm bound to say I wasn't
quite right stating it had fewer examples. Perhaps in the Ragazzini they're
just arranged better. Actually, I think I'd go for the Picchi if I had to
buy one of them: there are such phrases as you don't usually find in a
dictionary but that are widely used by native speakers, in newsgroups for
instance.

Post by Franco Tiratore
Speaking about the Ragazzini, is it handy to use? Better or worse than
the Picchi?

As I said in my previous message, neither can be fast on my pc. Perhaps the
Ragazzini has a slightly nicer interface, but I wouldn't buy it for this
very reason.

Post by Franco Tiratore
I have read an old faq of this newsgroup (maybe the one
hosted on TheRealm site, not sure) and it states that the Picchi
hasn't got a functional interface or good integration with the
operating system.

I couldn't say if that's true, but I dare say it is.


Bye, FB

[Franco Tiratore]

Post by FB
I've tried to use the Picchi these days, and I'm bound to say I wasn't
quite right stating it had fewer examples. Perhaps in the Ragazzini they're
just arranged better. Actually, I think I'd go for the Picchi if I had to
buy one of them: there are such phrases as you don't usually find in a
dictionary but that are widely used by native speakers, in newsgroups for
instance.

Thanks for your help.

Ciao
Franco

[MLC]

Post by FB
I dont' know what "fast" means: I run Windows 2000 with 64 Mb Ram...

Si comporta bene Dialog con 64 MB di Ram?
E' interessante saperlo, a volte si legge che è un programma pesante per la
memoria.

(scusate l'OT)

[FB]

Post by MLC

Post by FB
I dont' know what "fast" means: I run Windows 2000 with 64 Mb Ram...

Si comporta bene Dialog con 64 MB di Ram?
E' interessante saperlo, a volte si legge che è un programma pesante per la
memoria.

Sì. Si apre in un tempo accettabile e si chiude in un tempo un po' meno
accettabile, ma non infinito. Da quando sono passato a 'sta cavolo di
ultima versione, spesso quando chiudo si verifica l'errore "The application
seems to be frozen" (niente meno...), però.


Ciao, FB

[MLC]

Post by FB

Post by MLC

Post by FB
I dont' know what "fast" means: I run Windows 2000 with 64 Mb Ram...

Si comporta bene Dialog con 64 MB di Ram?
E' interessante saperlo, a volte si legge che è un programma pesante per la
memoria.

Sì. Si apre in un tempo accettabile e si chiude in un tempo un po' meno
accettabile, ma non infinito. Da quando sono passato a 'sta cavolo di
ultima versione, spesso quando chiudo si verifica l'errore "The application
seems to be frozen" (niente meno...), però.

Grazie della risposta.
In chiusura la vedi una finestrella sulla taskbar con scritto "Pulizia..."?
Probabilmente è quello che impegna un po' più a lungo il tutto.
Ma non disperare, vedrai che tra un po' ci sarà una nuova beta pubblica, più
leggera.

Ciao,

[joscurtin]

Post by Franco Tiratore

Post by FB
Penso che quasi tutti i dizionari con cd abbiano la pronuncia

registrata

Post by Franco Tiratore

Post by FB
delle parole. Il Picchi, che è molto apprezzato, non credo.

I'm searching for a good bilingual cd-rom dictionary...
You seem well informed about this topic, can I ask you some

questions?

Post by Franco Tiratore
I don't mind pronunciation, I need the possibility to search for words

"I am not interested in pronunciation", or "I am not concerned about
pronunciation", or "I don't care one way or the other about
pronunciation".
"I don't mind pronunciation" is the same as saying "I can put up with
pronunciation", or "I am not opposed to pronunciation". If you were to
say "I mind my pronunciation", that would be an entirely different
meaning of the verb "to mind". It would mean that you take care with
your pronunciation.

Post by Franco Tiratore
and example sentences too. The ideal solution would be a classic
dictionary with example sentences and the possibility to search

option would be better than possibility

Post by Franco Tiratore
throughout the whole dictionary. Do you suggest "Picchi" dictionary?

the "Picchi" dictionary

Post by Franco Tiratore
Can it be easily used in a Windows environment? Can fast searches be
done? Is there the possibility to activate the dictionary with a right

"Is there an option to activate"

Post by Franco Tiratore
click feature or something like that?

If you write in Furlàn on the computer, how do you get the "g" with
the upside-down ^ to print?
Do you have to use a special keyboard, like the Czech keyboard to get
the upside-down ^ to print over the "g"? Or maybe there's a Furlàn
keyboard?
Or, do you just forget about it? :>)
gioventù = {g(?)}oventût
That reminds me of the difference between the pronunciation of the
"J" in "Jose" in Spanish and Portuguese.
If you call a Portuguese guy named Joe "Jose", as the Spanish
pronounce it, he will be greatly offended, because the "J" in "Jose",
in Portuguese, is pronounced like the "j" in the French "je", or like
the "s" in the English "pleasure" (Jozay) , while the Spanish "J" in
"Jose" is pronounced something like the English initial "h" (Hosay). A
Portuguese-American girl told me this about her father, whose name was
Jose.

Jo(s)e from Massachusetts

[Franco Tiratore]

Post by joscurtin

Post by Franco Tiratore
I don't mind pronunciation, I need the possibility to search for

"I am not interested in pronunciation", or "I am not concerned about
pronunciation", or "I don't care one way or the other about
pronunciation".
"I don't mind pronunciation" is the same as saying "I can put up with
pronunciation", or "I am not opposed to pronunciation". If you were to
say "I mind my pronunciation", that would be an entirely different
meaning of the verb "to mind". It would mean that you take care with
your pronunciation.

I tried to explain that a dictionary without pronunciation features
would be good just the same... What is the correct sentence then?

Post by joscurtin
If you write in Furlàn on the computer, how do you get the "g" with
the upside-down ^ to print?
Do you have to use a special keyboard, like the Czech keyboard to get
the upside-down ^ to print over the "g"? Or maybe there's a Furlàn
keyboard?
Or, do you just forget about it? :>)

I seldom write in Furlàn. I'm rather used to speaking it. It's not
easy to write and read in Furlàn, since there are a lot of dialectal
inflections and it often happens that, for instance, a Furlàn carnico
can't be easily understood by Furlàn-della-bassa people. I think these
kind of problems dramatically increase in the written language, as
Furlàn in the tradition has always been a spoken language and few
people is really trying to fix rigorous grammar rules... Recently
Furlàn has been officially recognized as an official language and
strict rules must be followed to correctly write in this language.
Anyway, I have never studied these topics in deep, I only speak in
Furlàn to some of my relatives and friends (expecially those coming
from towns such as Lecce, Reggio Calabria, and so on... ^____^ ).
Hence, I'm not the best person to ask for grammar topics. I can answer
only by daily experience...

Post by joscurtin
gioventù = {g(?)}oventût

I'm not sure, but by daily experience I would write "GJOventût".
Certainly there must be a rigorous rule...
Anyway, if you happen to speak to Furlàn people, you could hear:
gioventuut - ghioventuut - zoventuut - other

Ciao
Franco

[Joe from Massachusetts]

Post by Franco Tiratore
I tried to explain that a dictionary without pronunciation features
would be good just the same... What is the correct sentence then?

"I am not interested in a pronunciation option", or "I am not interested
in pronunciation", or "I am not concerned about
pronunciation", or "I don't care one way or the other about
pronunciation".

Post by Franco Tiratore
I seldom write in Furlàn. I'm rather used to speaking it. It's not
easy to write and read in Furlàn, since there are a lot of dialectal
inflections and it often happens that, for instance, a Furlàn carnico
can't be easily understood by Furlàn-della-bassa people. I think these
kind of problems dramatically increase in the written language, as
Furlàn in the tradition has always been a spoken language and few
people is really trying to fix rigorous grammar rules... Recently
Furlàn has been officially recognized as an official language and
strict rules must be followed to correctly write in this language.
Anyway, I have never studied these topics in deep, I only speak in
Furlàn to some of my relatives and friends (expecially those coming
from towns such as Lecce, Reggio Calabria, and so on... ^____^ ).
Hence, I'm not the best person to ask for grammar topics. I can answer
only by daily experience...

I would certainly enjoy hearing you speak Furlàn to a Calabrese who
answers back in Calabrese! Once, in Vicenza, I asked an Italian friend for
a light for my cigarette. He was in the Air Force, and was not from the
Veneto, and didn't know the dialect at all, but I just assumed that
everyone picked up a few important basic phrases, as I did, phrases like
"Do' ombrete" (Two glasses of red wine). I asked him in dialect, "Ti te ga
un fu'minante", (Do you have a match), and he replied, "Cosa dici, che son
fulminante?" :>(
I thought you were the type who would be very much into the dialect and
would be involved in something serious,like translating Plinio il "Vieli"
from Latin into Furlàn. ;>))

Joe from Massachusetts

[Franco Tiratore]

Warning: pay attention to the crosspost...

Post by Joe from Massachusetts
I would certainly enjoy hearing you speak Furlàn to a Calabrese who
answers back in Calabrese!

As they have lived in Friuli for a long time, they can easily
understand what I'm saying and sometimes even try to answer in
Furlàn...
I don't know why, but I state that most non-Furlàn people really enjoy
listening to some of our particular catch phrases (modi di dire).

Post by Joe from Massachusetts
Once, in Vicenza, I asked an Italian friend for
a light for my cigarette. He was in the Air Force, and was not from the
Veneto, and didn't know the dialect at all, but I just assumed that
everyone picked up a few important basic phrases, as I did, phrases like
"Do' ombrete" (Two glasses of red wine). I asked him in dialect, "Ti te ga
un fu'minante", (Do you have a match), and he replied, "Cosa dici, che son
fulminante?" :>(

LOL! Wonderful!
Hearing that phrase in an American accent must be amusing!
Anyway, if you happen to come to Friuli, you can say:
"Doi tàis di neri" (Two glasses of red wine)
"Atu di impià?" "Atu un furminànt?" (Do you have a match?)

Post by Joe from Massachusetts
I thought you were the type who would be very much into the dialect and
would be involved in something serious,like translating Plinio il "Vieli"
from Latin into Furlàn. ;>))

Not at all. At least, not in this life!
There are a lot of things I would like to do, unfortunately a day
lasts only 24 hours! I have a lot of interests that I can't follow as
well as I would like to...
I state that Furlàn is disappearing among young people, and this is a
shame. I keep talking Furlàn as a sign of regard to our ancestors and
traditions too!

Wait a moment, I forgot I have a Furlàn dictionary! Here you are:

Quotes from Il Nuovo (1935!! O_O Is it valuable?) Pirona - Vocabolario
Friulano:

"
'Zoventût sf. = Giovinezza, gioventù; anche per I giovani: La zoventût
di une volte, di ué - Zoventût come a Udin no si ciate in nissùn lûc,
vill. pop. Anche Gioventût, zuvintût.
"

"
Il suono dolce della s e z iniziali è segnato con 's, 'z ('save,
'siminâ, 'zei, 'zovin, ecc."
"

"
I suoni caratteristici fr. della c e g palatizzate sono scritti ci,
gi, cia, gia,cie, gie, ecc.
La c palatale fu variamente rappresentata nella grafia fr., ma
principalmente nelle due forme: chi chia chie, ecc. e chi (la c con un
segnetto tipo virgola sotto, non la trovo nella tabella ascii NDF),
chia, chie, ecc. (sempre con il segnetto sotto la c NDF). Alla vecchia
forma, solo apparentemente analoga, ci ca co (con il segnetto sotto
sempre NDF) ecc. corrispondono nel Vocabolario le trascrizioni ci, cia
cio, ecc. o zi, za, zo, ecc. (ciondar, zondar; ciuite, zuite; ecc).
Il gruppo s seguito da c palatale è scritto s'ci, s'cia, s'cie, ecc.
(s'civâ, risc'ciâ, ecc.).
La c palatale in fine di parola è indicata con c' (dinc', grôc', dùc',
ecc.).
"

Hope this helps... ^_^

Ciao
Franco

[ADPUF]

Maybe someone in
it-alt.cultura.lingua.furlan
is interested in these messages.

Mandi.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Post by joscurtin
If you write in Furlàn on the computer, how do you get the
"g" with the upside-down ^ to print?
Do you have to use a special keyboard, like the Czech
keyboard to get the upside-down ^ to print over the "g"?
Or maybe there's a Furlàn keyboard?
Or, do you just forget about it? :>)
gioventù = {g(?)}oventût
That reminds me of the difference between the
pronunciation of the "J" in "Jose" in Spanish and
Portuguese. If you call a Portuguese guy named Joe "Jose",
as the Spanish pronounce it, he will be greatly offended,
because the "J" in "Jose", in Portuguese, is pronounced
like the "j" in the French "je", or like the "s" in the
English "pleasure" (Jozay) , while the Spanish "J" in
"Jose" is pronounced something like the English initial
"h" (Hosay). A Portuguese-American girl told me this about
her father, whose name was Jose.
Jo(s)e from Massachusetts
I seldom write in Furlàn. I'm rather used to speaking it.
It's not easy to write and read in Furlàn, since there are
a lot of dialectal inflections and it often happens that,
for instance, a Furlàn carnico can't be easily understood
by Furlàn-della-bassa people. I think these kind of
problems dramatically increase in the written language, as
Furlàn in the tradition has always been a spoken language
and few people is really trying to fix rigorous grammar
rules... Recently Furlàn has been officially recognized as
an official language and strict rules must be followed to
correctly write in this language. Anyway, I have never
studied these topics in deep, I only speak in Furlàn to
some of my relatives and friends (expecially those coming
from towns such as Lecce, Reggio Calabria, and so on...
^____^ ). Hence, I'm not the best person to ask for
grammar topics. I can answer only by daily experience...

Post by joscurtin
gioventù = {g(?)}oventût

I'm not sure, but by daily experience I would write
"GJOventût". Certainly there must be a rigorous rule...
Anyway, if you happen to speak to Furlàn people, you could
hear: gioventuut - ghioventuut - zoventuut - other
Ciao
Franco

on 19:30, venerdì 20 agosto 2004 Joe from Massachusetts

Post by joscurtin
I would certainly enjoy hearing you speak Furlàn to a
Calabrese who answers back in Calabrese! Once, in Vicenza,
I asked an Italian friend for a light for my cigarette. He
was in the Air Force, and was not from the Veneto, and
didn't know the dialect at all, but I just assumed that
everyone picked up a few important basic phrases, as I
did, phrases like "Do' ombrete" (Two glasses of red wine).
I asked him in dialect, "Ti te ga un fu'minante", (Do you
have a match), and he replied, "Cosa dici, che son
fulminante?"   :>( I thought you were the type who would
be very much into the dialect and would be involved in
something serious,like translating Plinio il "Vieli" from
Latin into Furlàn.  ;>))
Joe from Massachusetts

[R Pontisso]

Post by ADPUF
Maybe someone in
it-alt.cultura.lingua.furlan
is interested in these messages.

Post by joscurtin
If you write in Furlàn on the computer, how do you get the
"g" with the upside-down ^ to print?

The g with the hacek is not used in the official friulian orthography:
"Il gjat al zuiave" (The cat was playing)
In western Friuli and in the towns it's "gjat" that begins with the
soft-g [dZ], while "zuiave" begins with [z]; in rural central and
northern Friuli "zuiave" begins with [dZ] and "gjat" with the
characteristic Furlan palatalized g^j.

But while most furlans have agreed to adopt the official system (which
seems quite sensible, IMO), some diehards are still insisting on g-hacek
despite its being ill-suited for the [z] pronunciation of many Furlans,
so you'll still find it kicking around.

Post by ADPUF

Post by joscurtin
Do you have to use a special keyboard, like the Czech
keyboard to get the upside-down ^ to print over the "g"?
Or maybe there's a Furlàn keyboard?

A French keyboard would suffice: ç is the only special character
required (in addition to âêîôû and àèìòù).

Cùipo

[Cùipo]

Post by ADPUF
Maybe someone in
it-alt.cultura.lingua.furlan
is interested in these messages.

Post by joscurtin
If you write in Furlàn on the computer, how do you get the
"g" with the upside-down ^ to print?

The g with the hacek is not used in the official friulian orthography:
"Il gjat al zuiave" (The cat was playing)
In western Friuli and in the towns it's "gjat" that begins with the
soft-g [dZ], while "zuiave" begins with [z]; in rural central and
northern Friuli "zuiave" begins with [dZ] and "gjat" with the
characteristic Furlan palatalized g^j.

But while most furlans have agreed to adopt the official system (which
seems quite sensible, IMO), some diehards are still insisting on g-hacek
despite its being ill-suited for the [z] pronunciation of many Furlans,
so you'll still find it kicking around.

Post by ADPUF

Post by joscurtin
Do you have to use a special keyboard, like the Czech
keyboard to get the upside-down ^ to print over the "g"?
Or maybe there's a Furlàn keyboard?

A French keyboard would suffice: ç is the only special character
required (in addition to âêîôû and àèìòù).

Cùipo