traduzione

[Lingoss]

Ciao a tutti,
è la prima volta che scrivo e spero possiate essermi di aiuto.
Ho un problema con una frase...

"Baby don't know how to turn you loose"

Non riesco proprio a capirne il senso... qualcuno può darmi qualche dritta?

Grazie e saluti a tutti

[Enrico C]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:07:26 GMT, Lingoss wrote in

Post by Lingoss
Ciao a tutti,
è la prima volta che scrivo e spero possiate essermi di aiuto.
Ho un problema con una frase...
"Baby don't know how to turn you loose"
Non riesco proprio a capirne il senso... qualcuno può darmi qualche dritta?
Grazie e saluti a tutti

Il contesto?

Poterebbe significare "non so come liberarti", ma anche "come farti
scatenare", forse....


http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=turn+loose

- turn loose 1 a : to set free <turned loose the captured animal> b : to
free from all restraints <turned them loose with a pile of theme paper to
write whatever they liked -- Elizabeth P. Schafer> 2 : to fire off :
DISCHARGE 3 : to open fire

[Enrico C]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:07:26 GMT, Lingoss wrote in

Post by Lingoss
Ciao a tutti,
è la prima volta che scrivo e spero possiate essermi di aiuto.
Ho un problema con una frase...
"Baby don't know how to turn you loose"
Non riesco proprio a capirne il senso... qualcuno può darmi qualche dritta?
Grazie e saluti a tutti

Il contesto?

Potrebbe significare "non so come liberarti", ma anche "come farti
scatenare", forse....


http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=turn+loose

- turn loose 1 a : to set free <turned loose the captured animal> b : to
free from all restraints <turned them loose with a pile of theme paper to
write whatever they liked -- Elizabeth P. Schafer> 2 : to fire off :
DISCHARGE 3 : to open fire

[Laz]

Post by Enrico C
Potrebbe significare "non so come liberarti", ma anche "come farti
scatenare", forse....

Oppure baby potrebbe essere il soggetto della frase.

[Lingoss]

anch'io pensavo che baby fosse soggetto.
grazie ragazzi

Post by Laz

Post by Enrico C
Potrebbe significare "non so come liberarti", ma anche "come farti
scatenare", forse....

Oppure baby potrebbe essere il soggetto della frase.
--
Laz - [http://www.dimensionedelta.net]
"We came, we saw, we kicked its ass!"

[jonny]

Post by Lingoss
Ciao a tutti,
è la prima volta che scrivo e spero possiate essermi di aiuto.
Ho un problema con una frase...
"Baby don't know how to turn you loose"
Non riesco proprio a capirne il senso... qualcuno può darmi qualche dritta?
Grazie e saluti a tutti

Ciao, scusa Il mio italiano non è buono, ma cerco di spiegarlo.

"baby" è un vezzeggiativo, appellativo affettuoso.
"don't know how" non è grammaticale, dovrebb'essere "I don't know how"
ma è una canzone e canzoni sono spesso scritto così.
Come ha detto Enrico "to turn you loose" significa "to
free from all restraints" ma in modo metaforico. Non sono capace di
tradurlo in italiano ma è lo stesso come: "to let you go".

[Lingoss]

Quindi più o meno vorrebbe dire "amore non so come lasciarti andare" ?
E' il testo di una canzone che si chiama circles:
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Circles-lyrics-Mariah-Carey/D15EBB761596CB7548256FBE0028391F

cmq grazie a tutti per l'interessamento!!!

Post by jonny

Post by Lingoss
Ciao a tutti,
è la prima volta che scrivo e spero possiate essermi di aiuto.
Ho un problema con una frase...
"Baby don't know how to turn you loose"
Non riesco proprio a capirne il senso... qualcuno può darmi qualche dritta?
Grazie e saluti a tutti

Ciao, scusa Il mio italiano non è buono, ma cerco di spiegarlo.
"baby" è un vezzeggiativo, appellativo affettuoso.
"don't know how" non è grammaticale, dovrebb'essere "I don't know how"
ma è una canzone e canzoni sono spesso scritto così.
Come ha detto Enrico "to turn you loose" significa "to
free from all restraints" ma in modo metaforico. Non sono capace di
tradurlo in italiano ma è lo stesso come: "to let you go".

[Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)]

Post by Lingoss
"Baby don't know how to turn you loose"

è gergale. si vede dal fatto che il verbo non è concordato in numero
con il soggetto, almeno non a livello grammaticale.


tradurrei:

"Le ragazze (i bambini?) non sanno (mai) come lasciarti libero (in
pace)".

[Mike Brewer]

Post by Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)

Post by Lingoss
"Baby don't know how to turn you loose"

è gergale. si vede dal fatto che il verbo non è concordato in numero
con il soggetto, almeno non a livello grammaticale.
"Le ragazze (i bambini?) non sanno (mai) come lasciarti libero (in
pace)".
--

No - there's no doubt that jonny's right ; 'baby' isn't the subject ,
despite the lack of a comma after it ; it's '[I] don't know how' .

Mike

[Laz]

Post by Mike Brewer
No - there's no doubt that jonny's right ; 'baby' isn't the subject ,
despite the lack of a comma after it ; it's '[I] don't know how' .

Well, I don't know the song, but in general if there were two people
talking about someone else then 'baby' could be the subject too.

[jonny]

Post by Laz

Post by Mike Brewer
No - there's no doubt that jonny's right ; 'baby' isn't the subject ,
despite the lack of a comma after it ; it's '[I] don't know how' .

Well, I don't know the song, but in general if there were two people
talking about someone else then 'baby' could be the subject too.

http://lyrics.songtext.name/Mariah%20Carey/Circles-25948.html
Lo so solo perché l'ho cercato su google. Riesci a vedere del contesto
che "baby" è un vezzeggiativo, come molte canzoni di questo genere.

[Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)]

Post by jonny
http://lyrics.songtext.name/Mariah%20Carey/Circles-25948.html
Lo so solo perché l'ho cercato su google. Riesci a vedere del contesto
che "baby" è un vezzeggiativo, come molte canzoni di questo genere.

sì vabbè, se se sa r contesto allora cambia tutto, e so boni tutti.


però prima mica se sapeva...insomma, la frase, distaccata dal suo
contesto, imo può significare diverse cose.


ciao, bella pure pe te

[jonny]

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:12:42 GMT, "Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)"

Post by Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)
so boni tutti

what does this mean?

[Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)]

Post by jonny

Post by Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)
so boni tutti

what does this mean?

(in that way) they're all good at it.

it means that there no particular honour in giving an answer being
provided with such a consideration in advance, as I had been not,
before.


ps "so boni tutti" = "sono buoni tutti" = "(così) sono capaci tutti"

[FB]

Post by Laz

Post by Mike Brewer
No - there's no doubt that jonny's right ; 'baby' isn't the subject ,
despite the lack of a comma after it ; it's '[I] don't know how' .

Well, I don't know the song, but in general if there were two people
talking about someone else then 'baby' could be the subject too.

"Baby don't"? It does seem a vocative.


Bye, FB

[Laz]

Post by FB

Post by Laz
Well, I don't know the song, but in general if there were two people
talking about someone else then 'baby' could be the subject too.

"Baby don't"? It does seem a vocative.

In a rap song? Anything goes. Not in this one, okay, but... for example,
check this out:

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Me-Around-lyrics-Michael-Penn/DF82182599DFF03148256D75002D5318

"Baby don't want me around"

[Enrico C]

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 11:49:02 +0200, Laz wrote in

Post by Laz

Post by FB

Post by Laz
Well, I don't know the song, but in general if there were two people
talking about someone else then 'baby' could be the subject too.

"Baby don't"? It does seem a vocative.

In a rap song? Anything goes. Not in this one, okay, but... for example,
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Me-Around-lyrics-Michael-Penn/DF82182599DFF03148256D75002D5318
"Baby don't want me around"

Però, in questi casi, forse è più frequente "My baby..."

[Laz]

Post by Enrico C

Post by Laz
"Baby don't want me around"

Però, in questi casi, forse è più frequente "My baby..."

Sicuramente, ma possono voler dire due cose diverse (senza il "my" non
credo sia necessariamente "my")

[Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)]

Il Wed, 27 Jul 2005 03:20:05 +0100, "Mike Brewer"

Post by Mike Brewer

Post by Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)

Post by Lingoss
"Baby don't know how to turn you loose"

"Le ragazze (i bambini?) non sanno (mai) come lasciarti libero (in
pace)".

No - there's no doubt that jonny's right ; 'baby' isn't the subject ,
despite the lack of a comma after it ; it's '[I] don't know how' .

y would u say that?


who nose, after all, who's right?


I think that both are probable correct translations. It depends on how
you intone the sentence. That's mainly what commas are made for.
You you don't put it one, either you didn't mean one, or you wrote it
wrong, and then how am I gonna understand it correctly?

Why, on the other hand, a lack of correspondence in number between the
sbj and the verb, is much more likely to occure, in gergal sentences.
I mean being the sbj singular where it should more likely to be
plural, or the same with the verb.



ciao, bella.

[Laz]

Post by Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)
y would u say that?
who nose, after all, who's right?

Dude, you ok?

[Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)]

Post by Laz

Post by Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)
y would u say that?
who nose, after all, who's right?

Dude, you ok?

we prefer to say:

"ma te pìa spesso?"


btw yes, I'm all right, just in the mood.

[Mike Brewer]

Post by Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)
Il Wed, 27 Jul 2005 03:20:05 +0100, "Mike Brewer"

Post by Mike Brewer

Post by Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)

Post by Lingoss
"Baby don't know how to turn you loose"

"Le ragazze (i bambini?) non sanno (mai) come lasciarti libero (in
pace)".

No - there's no doubt that jonny's right ; 'baby' isn't the subject ,
despite the lack of a comma after it ; it's '[I] don't know how' .

y would u say that?

I go with the odds . Whilst it may (just) be possible to force some kind of
meaning taking 'baby' as the subject , the likelihood of someone actually
saying these words with that meaning is at least a million to one against .
Similarly , in the other example , 'baby don't want me around ', the chances
of 'baby' *not* being the subject are effectively nil - we simply do not use
'want' as an imperative (not in this sense ; in 'Waste not , want not' it is
used in the older sense of 'lack' )
(Incidentally , 'turn you loose' couldn't mean 'lasciarti in pace'.)

Post by Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)
who nose, after all, who's right?

Well , if that's a general philosophical question , I pass ; but in relation
to this tiny linguistic query , I'd say the common concensus of native
speakers might be decisive - and I'll be totally amazed if you find any
native speaker who'd disagree with jonny and me on this occasion .

Post by Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)
. That's mainly what commas are made for.
You you don't put it one, either you didn't mean one, or you wrote it
wrong, and then how am I gonna understand it correctly?
Why, on the other hand, a lack of correspondence in number between the
sbj and the verb, is much more likely to occure, in gergal sentences.
I mean being the sbj singular where it should more likely to be
plural, or the same with the verb.

I don't disagree with that ; and it's true that the omission of a comma and
of a personal pronoun in the first example , and the omission of a
possessive adjective together with a lack of correspondence between subject
and verb in the second , doesn't help understanding ; but the fact remains
that (even without context) a native speaker wouldn't be in doubt .

Mike

[Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)]

Il Wed, 27 Jul 2005 23:41:40 +0100, "Mike Brewer"

Post by Mike Brewer

Post by Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)

Post by Mike Brewer

Post by Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)

Post by Lingoss
"Baby don't know how to turn you loose"

"Le ragazze (i bambini?) non sanno (mai) come lasciarti libero (in
pace)".

No - there's no doubt that jonny's right ; 'baby' isn't the subject ,
despite the lack of a comma after it ; it's '[I] don't know how' .

y would u say that?

I go with the odds .

I'm "against all odds" (quote).

Post by Mike Brewer
Whilst it may (just) be possible to force some kind of
meaning taking 'baby' as the subject , the likelihood of someone actually
saying these words with that meaning is at least a million to one against .

Or it's not just like that.

What do you think?

Post by Mike Brewer
Similarly , in the other example , 'baby don't want me around ', the chances
of 'baby' *not* being the subject are effectively nil - we simply do not use

you mean "nihil", don't you? <grin>

Post by Mike Brewer
'want' as an imperative

eh, ma che c'entra mo?

Post by Mike Brewer
(Incidentally , 'turn you loose' couldn't mean 'lasciarti in pace'.)

appunto. e io ch'avevo detto?

Post by Mike Brewer

Post by Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)
who nose, after all, who's right?

Well , if that's a general philosophical question , I pass ; but in relation
to this tiny linguistic query , I'd say the common concensus of native
speakers might be decisive - and I'll be totally amazed if you find any
native speaker who'd disagree with jonny and me on this occasion .

ah vabbè, pe così poco.
ate vinto.

Post by Mike Brewer
and verb in the second , doesn't help understanding ; but the fact remains
that (even without context) a native speaker wouldn't be in doubt .

The mines (too) stay.

I will allow no more Dominion reinforcements through this sector.


(just in the mood of a little DS9 chitchat. Just tonight I watched
7x02...and looking forward for the end of it, while fear the
approaching of this very same end.

[Laz]

Post by Mike Brewer
I go with the odds . Whilst it may (just) be possible to force some
kind of meaning taking 'baby' as the subject , the likelihood of
someone actually saying these words with that meaning is at least a
million to one against . Similarly , in the other example , 'baby
don't want me around ', the chances of 'baby' *not* being the subject
are effectively nil - we simply do not use 'want' as an imperative
(not in this sense ; in 'Waste not , want not' it is used in the
older sense of 'lack' ) (Incidentally , 'turn you loose' couldn't
mean 'lasciarti in pace'.)

Ok I chose a wrong example with "want" :-) But you can easily find a
couple of "know"s too in other songs.

I found a "Baby Don't Know What To Do With Herself" (I know that the
"herself" makes it clear, here, but that is not the point)
and
"baby don't know why, but baby's little secret, makes her want to die"

Of course, 99% of the times it's "Baby, I don't know", but it is
possible (and not particularly weird) for it to be correctly "baby don't
know".

For example:

Person1: "So you told her you gonna dump her?"
Person2: "Yeah, don't feel right when I'm with her..."
Person1: "you don't? What's the problem?"
Person2: "I don't know, she's kinda boring"
Person3: "Baby don't know how to turn you loose, huh?"

(I just made this up, it's stupid, but it sounds right to me, here)

[Mike Brewer]

Post by Laz

Post by Mike Brewer
I go with the odds . Whilst it may (just) be possible to force some
kind of meaning taking 'baby' as the subject , the likelihood of
someone actually saying these words with that meaning is at least a
million to one against . Similarly , in the other example , 'baby
don't want me around ', the chances of 'baby' *not* being the subject
are effectively nil - we simply do not use 'want' as an imperative
(not in this sense ; in 'Waste not , want not' it is used in the
older sense of 'lack' ) (Incidentally , 'turn you loose' couldn't
mean 'lasciarti in pace'.)

Ok I chose a wrong example with "want" :-) But you can easily find a
couple of "know"s too in other songs.
I found a "Baby Don't Know What To Do With Herself" (I know that the
"herself" makes it clear, here, but that is not the point)
and
"baby don't know why, but baby's little secret, makes her want to die"
Of course, 99% of the times it's "Baby, I don't know", but it is possible
(and not particularly weird) for it to be correctly "baby don't know".
Person1: "So you told her you gonna dump her?"
Person2: "Yeah, don't feel right when I'm with her..."
Person1: "you don't? What's the problem?"
Person2: "I don't know, she's kinda boring"
Person3: "Baby don't know how to turn you loose, huh?"
(I just made this up, it's stupid, but it sounds right to me, here)

One in a million !

Mike

[Laz]

Post by Mike Brewer
One in a million !

No doubt about it!

[Laz]

Post by Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)
"Le ragazze (i bambini?) non sanno (mai) come lasciarti libero (in
pace)".

Questa mi sembra improbabile in ogni caso, non e' plurale!

[f***@mail.com]

the sentence: "Baby don't know how to turn you loose" is improper English -
in proper English, it should read: "Baby, I don't know how to turn you
loose", which is a colloquial version of:

"my dear, I don't know how to stop our relationship" or "my dear, I don't
know how to stop having sex with you, even though I don't see our
relationship as maturing"

spiacente, non conosco l'italiano ancora

Fran Lorin
www.patent.0catch.com


x-- 100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
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[f***@mail.com]

use:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

for a quick translation

Fran Lorin
www.patent.0catch.com


x-- 100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
x-- 30+ Days Binary Retention with High Completion
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x-- UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD

[f***@mail.com]

from http://babelfish.altavista.com/

il mio caro, non so arrestare il nostro rapporto


x-- 100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
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[f***@mail.com]

il mio caro, non so smettere di avervi sesso con, anche se non vedo il
nostro rapporto come facendo maturare


x-- 100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
x-- 30+ Days Binary Retention with High Completion
x-- Access to over 1.9 Terabytes per Day - $8.95/Month
x-- UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD

[Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!]

Post by f***@mail.com
il mio caro, non so smettere di avervi sesso con, anche se non vedo il
nostro rapporto come facendo maturare

Te prego fermete.

[f***@mail.com]

On 4-Aug-2005, Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!

Post by Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)
Tutto ciò che può esistere, esiste.

alles wat er is, is

tout qui existe, existe

Fran


x-- 100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
x-- 30+ Days Binary Retention with High Completion
x-- Access to over 1.9 Terabytes per Day - $8.95/Month
x-- UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD

[Father McKenzie]

***@mail.com, para que tú me oigas, mis palabras se adelgazan a veces
como las huellas de las gaviotas en las playas

Post by f***@mail.com
On 4-Aug-2005, Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!

Post by Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)
Tutto ciò che può esistere, esiste.

alles wat er is, is
tout qui existe, existe

Non è vero. L'intelligenza di berlusconi per esempio...

[Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!]

Post by Father McKenzie

Post by Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)
Tutto ciò che può esistere, esiste.

Non è vero. L'intelligenza di berlusconi per esempio...

No. L'intelligenza di Berlusconi non può essere neanche essere
concepita.

Tu ci riusciresti? A concepirla, intendo. Te lo immagini un Berlusconi
*intelligente*?

Ma dai...

[Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!]

Post by f***@mail.com

Post by Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)
Tutto ciò che può esistere, esiste.

alles wat er is, is
tout qui existe, existe

show off


ps la prima che lingua è? mica è tedesco...anche se c'assomiglia

[f***@mail.com]

On 4-Aug-2005, Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!

Post by f***@mail.com

Post by Kwizach Haderach (G. Neiman)
Tutto ciò che può esistere, esiste.

alles wat er is, is
tout qui existe, existe

show off
ps la prima che lingua è? mica è tedesco...anche se c'assomiglia

what little I know about Italian is of no use in responding in Italian,
since it is so little

anyway, my first language was Dutch (Nederlands), then I learned English
after 5 years old, and French throughout my life (mostly to speak to
relatives) - but now my primary language is English

I arrived at this newsgroup by looking for discussion groups about
linguistics in general, since linguistics is essential in the field on
Intellectual Property (my belief) - this one happened to have some English
discussion, so I have begun posting here to learn more

and Dutch is certainly related to German, but my experience is that it
resembles English more closely than German - and Dutch also has a few
connections with Danish

anyway, I must rely almost entirely on http://babelfish.altavista.com/ to
have any hope of following Italian discussions

excuse me for my lack of Italian ability

here is the Italian translation of above from
http://babelfish.altavista.com/ :

che piccolo conosco circa italiano è inutile nella risposta in italiano,
poiché è così piccolo in ogni modo, la mia prima lingua era dutch
(Nederlands), quindi ho imparato l'inglese dopo vecchio 5 anni ed il
francese durante la mia vita (principalmente parlare ai parenti) - ma ora la
mia lingua primaria è inglese Sono arrivato a questo newsgroup cercando i
gruppi di discussione circa la linguistica in generale, poiché la
linguistica è essenziale nel campo sulla proprietà intellettuale (la mia
credenza) - questa sembrata per avere certa discussione inglese, in modo da
io ha cominciato l'invio qui per imparare più ed il dutch certamente è
collegato con tedesco, ma la mia esperienza è che assomiglia più molto
attentamente all'inglese del tedesco - ed il dutch inoltre ha alcuni
collegamenti con il Danese in ogni modo, devo contare quasi interamente su
http://babelfish.altavista.com/ per avere tutta la speranza di seguenti
discussioni italiane scusilo per la mia mancanza di abilità italiana

does the Italian translation make sense?
fa la traduzione italiana hanno il significato?

grazie

Fran Lorin
www.patent.0catch.com


x-- 100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
x-- 30+ Days Binary Retention with High Completion
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x-- UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD

[Massy]

Post by f***@mail.com
che piccolo conosco circa italiano è inutile nella risposta in
italiano, poiché è così piccolo in ogni modo, la mia prima lingua era
dutch (Nederlands), quindi ho imparato l'inglese dopo vecchio 5 anni
ed il francese durante la mia vita (principalmente parlare ai
parenti) - ma ora la mia lingua primaria è inglese Sono arrivato a
questo newsgroup cercando i gruppi di discussione circa la
linguistica in generale, poiché la linguistica è essenziale nel campo
sulla proprietà intellettuale (la mia credenza) - questa sembrata per
avere certa discussione inglese, in modo da io ha cominciato l'invio
qui per imparare più ed il dutch certamente è collegato con tedesco,
ma la mia esperienza è che assomiglia più molto attentamente
all'inglese del tedesco - ed il dutch inoltre ha alcuni collegamenti
con il Danese in ogni modo, devo contare quasi interamente su
http://babelfish.altavista.com/ per avere tutta la speranza di
seguenti discussioni italiane scusilo per la mia mancanza di abilità
italiana
does the Italian translation make sense?

No! Those program never do a good work.

The traslation in Italian is:
"Conosco molto poco l'italiano e dunque non me la sento di rispondere in
italiano, poichè lo conosco davvero poco.

Comunque, la mia prima lingua è stato l'olandese (Olanda), poi, a cinque
anni, ho imparato l'inglese, e ho ?studiato? il francese per tutto il corso
della mia vita (soprattutto ?parlando? con i miei familiari) - ma ora la mia
prima lingua è l'inglese.

Sono giunto in questo newsgroup cercando gruppi di discussione sulla
linguistica in generale, poichè la linguistica è essenziale nel campo della
Proprietà Intellettuale (il mio credo) - ?questo è successo di avere qualche
discussione in inglese?, così ho cominciato a postare qui per imparare di
più.

e l'olandese è certamente simile al tedesco, ma secondo la mia esperienza
penso che assomiglia più all'inglese che al tedesco - e l'olandese ha anche
parecchi punti di contatto con il danese.

però, devo affidarmi quasi interamente a http://... per poter sperare di
riuscire a seguire le discussioni in italiano

scusatemi pe la mia scarsa conoscenza dell'italiano

qui è dove ho preso la traduzione in italiano che posto di seguito
http://...

[...]

Ha senso la traduzione italiana?

Post by f***@mail.com
fa la traduzione italiana hanno il significato?

[Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!]

Post by f***@mail.com

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!
ps la prima che lingua è? mica è tedesco...anche se c'assomiglia

what little I know about Italian is of no use in responding in Italian,
since it is so little

(opened parenthesis)

Since we are in it.cultura.linguistica.INGLESE, I feel free to
highlight your repeating of "little" and "Italian", which makes the
sentence you constructed a little bad, in shape.

Maybe you could have said the same thing in a little different way, to
sound a little more elegant, or less "simple".
You could've used pronouns.


For instance:

What little I know about Italian is of no use in using _it_ in my
aswer, since, as I told you, it's not enough.

(closed parenthesis)

Post by f***@mail.com
and Dutch is certainly related to German, but my experience is that it
resembles English more closely than German - and Dutch also has a few
connections with Danish

But since I've studied both Deutsch und Englisch, I'm recognized what
seems to me a more linguistic proximity with English.

Post by f***@mail.com
excuse me for my lack of Italian ability

Never mind, I speak a reasonable English.

Post by f***@mail.com
che piccolo conosco circa italiano è inutile nella risposta in italiano,
poiché è così piccolo in ogni modo, la mia prima lingua era dutch
(Nederlands), quindi ho imparato l'inglese dopo vecchio 5 anni ed il
francese durante la mia vita (principalmente parlare ai parenti) - ma ora la
mia lingua primaria è inglese Sono arrivato a questo newsgroup cercando i
gruppi di discussione circa la linguistica in generale, poiché la
linguistica è essenziale nel campo sulla proprietà intellettuale (la mia
credenza) - questa sembrata per avere certa discussione inglese, in modo da
io ha cominciato l'invio qui per imparare più ed il dutch certamente è
collegato con tedesco, ma la mia esperienza è che assomiglia più molto
attentamente all'inglese del tedesco - ed il dutch inoltre ha alcuni
collegamenti con il Danese in ogni modo, devo contare quasi interamente su
http://babelfish.altavista.com/ per avere tutta la speranza di seguenti
discussioni italiane scusilo per la mia mancanza di abilità italiana
does the Italian translation make sense?

No.

Post by f***@mail.com
fa la traduzione italiana hanno il significato?

"Does the Italian translation have the meaning?"

Post by f***@mail.com
grazie

you're welcome.

[Tony the Ice Man]

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!

Post by f***@mail.com

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!
ps la prima che lingua è? mica è tedesco...anche se c'assomiglia

what little I know about Italian is of no use in responding in Italian,
since it is so little

Since we are in it.cultura.linguistica.INGLESE, I feel free to
highlight your repeating of "little" and "Italian", which makes the
sentence you constructed a little bad, in shape.

The construction is fine if it is considered to be tongue-in-cheek. One
would say 'construction' rather than 'shape'.

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!
Maybe you could have said the same thing in a little different way, to
sound a little more elegant, or less "simple".
You could've used pronouns.

It's odd to see you then use 'little' twice in a sentence after criticizing
that it was used twice in Fran's post. In any case, there is nothing
substantially wrong with your sentence.

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!
What little I know about Italian is of no use in using _it_ in my
aswer, since, as I told you, it's not enough.

The 'no use in using it', again, is not wrong, just awkward. Of course you
probably recognize the typo 'answer'.

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!

Post by f***@mail.com
and Dutch is certainly related to German, but my experience is that it
resembles English more closely than German - and Dutch also has a few
connections with Danish

But since I've studied both Deutsch und Englisch, I'm recognized what
seems to me a more linguistic proximity with English.

This sentence is grammatically incorrect. You should say 'I recognize'. You
could say 'I've recognized' but it is awkward construction. Of course you
probably recognize the typo 'English'.

By the way, a native speaker would probably not use the verb 'recognize' in
this context. He or she would more likely say 'find'.

[Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!]

Il Fri, 05 Aug 2005 20:37:16 GMT, "Tony the Ice Man"

Post by Tony the Ice Man
The construction is fine if it is considered to be tongue-in-cheek. One
would say 'construction' rather than 'shape'.

Grazie, non ero infatti sicuro del termine.

Comunque non criticavo, osservavo e basta (non è forse il fine di
questo ng? ossia non di criticare, ma di crescere insieme?)

Post by Tony the Ice Man

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!
Maybe you could have said the same thing in a little different way, to
sound a little more elegant, or less "simple".
You could've used pronouns.

It's odd to see you then use 'little' twice in a sentence after criticizing
that it was used twice in Fran's post. In any case, there is nothing
substantially wrong with your sentence.

:-))) m'è scappato

ho sbagliato

sai...è che ho passato tutto il pomeriggio a riportare su carta il
testo di una canzone, precisamente, e notare qua e là diversi fenomeni
linguistico-fonetici....

ero mpo' stanco
(ecco, quello è un fenomeno linguistico-fonetico interessante!
da un po' si unisce la parola, facendo saltare la u. unendo la parola,
venendo la nasale n prima della labiale p, la n diventa m, come ci
spiegano sempre alle elementari di stare attenti a scrivere)

Post by Tony the Ice Man

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!
What little I know about Italian is of no use in using _it_ in my
aswer, since, as I told you, it's not enough.

The 'no use in using it', again, is not wrong, just awkward. Of course you
probably recognize the typo 'answer'.

c'ho un po' di difficoltà a pensare in inglese delle frasi le cui
costruzioni, in realtà, non sembrano per niente esistere in inglese.
ma quello mi pare comunque il miglior modo di esprimermi, l'inglese mi
pare un po' troppo semplicistico e poco elegante, quindi lo forzo per
farlo entrare negli schemi italiani.

lo so che è un errore.

in particolare, accade quando devo usare le forme declinate
dell'infinito presente o passato

Post by Tony the Ice Man

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!

Post by f***@mail.com
and Dutch is certainly related to German, but my experience is that it
resembles English more closely than German - and Dutch also has a few
connections with Danish

But since I've studied both Deutsch und Englisch, I'm recognized what
seems to me a more linguistic proximity with English.

This sentence is grammatically incorrect. You should say 'I recognize'.

I've, invece che I'm. pensavo a qualcos'altro, ho cambiato in corsa, e
non ho cambiato tutto.

Post by Tony the Ice Man
You
could say 'I've recognized' but it is awkward construction.

come sopra
è questo dannato passato prossimo italiano...
mi sa che solo i siciliani usano bene il passato prossimo/remoto, in
Italia.

Post by Tony the Ice Man
Of course you
probably recognize the typo 'English'.

No, è scritta apposta. Non è un misspelling.
se ho scritto Deutsch per German, allora scrivo Englisch per English

Post by Tony the Ice Man
By the way, a native speaker would probably not use the verb 'recognize' in
this context. He or she would more likely say 'find'.

find è così generico...so trivial
almeno recognize viene dal latino, è un termine neoclassico.
però sì, lo so che in inglese quello che per noi fanno i termini
neoclassici nell'inglese sono i termini puramente anglosassoni (come
find), but I can't help it
non è una giustificazione, è un riconoscimento di errore

ciao

Post by Tony the Ice Man
Giò

How do you expect me to grow, if you don't let me blow?
(Rachel a Ross, Friends 2x19)

[f***@mail.com]

On 5-Aug-2005, Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!
But since I've studied both Deutsch und Englisch, I'm recognized what
seems to me a more linguistic proximity with English.

thanks to Tony the Ice Man for the v ery accurate comments

I would like to point out that Dutch is the language of the Netherlands -
whereas, "Deutsch" is the language of Germany - they are not identical,
otherwise I would have no problem writing German too!

adios

Fran Lorin


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[Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!]

Post by f***@mail.com

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!
But since I've studied both Deutsch und Englisch, I'm recognized what
seems to me a more linguistic proximity with English.

thanks to Tony the Ice Man for the v ery accurate comments
I would like to point out that Dutch is the language of the Netherlands -
whereas, "Deutsch" is the language of Germany - they are not identical,
otherwise I would have no problem writing German too!

Neither Italian is the same thing as French or Spanish, but you have
to admit there are similarities.

So deep that usually if an Italian talks to a Spaniard slowly in a
simple Italian, the latter can understand virtually without any
problem.
And viceversa.

So I recognized, in your sentence "alles wat er is, is", these things:


alles = all
wat = similar to war (a form of to be)
er = he
is = similar to "ist" (is, in English)


Nonetheless, I pointed out that it was not German.


The French sentence was so ordinary, by the way:

"tout qui existe, existe"


tout = all (tutto in Italian, almost the same)
qui = that (che in Italian, qui in Latin, almost the same)
existe = exists (esiste in Italian, existet in Latin, almost the same)



Do you see?

Now tell me. Why writing in Dutsch and in French in an _Italian_
newsgroup about the _English_ language?

It sounds a little strange, to me.

I felt the same sensation last year, when I was in Prague.
I noticed that many foregneirs (who didn't know, let's say, nor
English nor German, or Russian), insisted to talk to newsstander,
waitresses, cashieres, and so one, in their own language. Let's say
French, Italian, Spanish, or other things I didn't recognized with
accuracy. The same thing I noticed here in Rome. The tourists would
stop me by asking a question in English (they haven't yet dared to ask
me in French or Spanish, or German).
I know that the personell working in the tourist-businness are capable
of expressing, about those specific matters, in many languages, but
the normal people are easy not to.
I, in Austria and Germany tried to talk that little of German I was
capable of. In France I tried to express myself in those few words of
French I then knew. In Spain I never went, but I figure that I would
do the same.
When I was in Greece, actually, knowing absoloutleu _nothing_ of the
Greek language (not even the Ancient Greek, studied in some High
School), I asked in English "Pharmacy?". The old man (the only one
present) I stopped by, expressed a sign of perplexity.
I looked up in my memory, and tried: "apoteke?...uhm...pharmakeio?"
And he smiled and pointed the finger toward the right direction.

I think we own to the dignity of a nation's people, to /try/ at least
to talk their own language. Or at least something we know is well
widespread among them (like German or Russian, in East Europe).
If think is very offensive to come into your home and talk to you in a
way we are not even sure you will be able to understand.


That's the way I feel it. :-)

Post by f***@mail.com
Giò

How do you expect me to grow, if you don't let me blow?
(Rachel a Ross, Friends 2x19)

[f***@mail.com]

Enas:

I have two points regarding my presence in this newsgroup:
point #1: I am interested in linguistics, especially as it applies to
technical subject matter (e.g., patents) and, preferably in English (but not
necessarily only in English!)
point #2: in seeking out relevant newsgroups, this one appears to be the
most active of the few I came across at this time, using my newsgroup
provider, 100proofnews

the major problem I am now encountering is my lack of any substantial
experience in Italian, neither speaking nor writing nor reading - however, I
am certainly willing to learn!


on the first point:

On 6-Aug-2005, Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!
Now tell me. Why writing in Dutsch and in French in an _Italian_
newsgroup about the _English_ language?

that is a very good question - here are a few points that may make the
connection between the Duch and French more relevant to the English
language:

before the Romans under Caesar (which I assume spoke a latin that may have
resembled a dialect that originated perhaps somewhere east and south of
Rome) about 2000 years ago, the inhabitants of the
British Isles spoke a Celtic language at that time that was not well
documented

after the Romans left the British Isles about 410 AD, Danish influence began
- the soft and hard "th" sounds (soft "th" as in "then" and hard "th" as in
"thank") were used by those early Viking invaders - today, only Icelandic
out of all the Germanic and Scandinavian languages that influenced that
early English actually has both soft and hard "th" sounds - in fact, they
use completely separate letters in their alphabet to denote these two
different sounds - it is my understanding that Italian has no such sounds

then, after the invasion by William the Conquerer in 1066, significant
portions of English became influenced by French (mostly legal and military
terms)

Dutch, as the language used by the people of the Netherlands in modern
times, resembles English very closely - it does resemble German as well, but
as I posted before, in my experience, it resembles English more closely than
German (that is my opinion, of course)

now, regarding the relationship of Dutch and French (note that the word
"Dutsch" that you used is really not a spelling used by anyone in any
language that I am aware of, so I am not aware of its existence in any
language) to Italian, it is clear that Italian (or, perhaps more accurately,
Latin) had an influence on English which must have occurred for a period of
about 400 years, from the time of Caesar to about 410 AD, even though not
well documented - the Dutch, being geographically proximate the British
Isles, and being influenced by the Germanic languages and being
linguistically related to the Scandinavian languages is relevant to English
- French, which directly influenced English by the influence of William the
Conquerer, which is derived from the old Gallic language (which is a Celtic
language) and Latin, brings the connection to today's Italian into view

now, if you want to question the relevance of non-European languages, such
as Japanese, Turkish, Xhosa, or any of the "polynesian" languages in this
newsgroup, then I would more readily agree that they are questionably
relevant

Fran


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[Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!]

Post by f***@mail.com

Now tell me. Why writing in Dutch and in French in an _Italian_
newsgroup about the _English_ language?

that is a very good question - here are a few points that may make the
connection between the Dutch and French more relevant to the English
before the Romans under Caesar (which I assume spoke a latin that may have
resembled a dialect that originated perhaps somewhere east and south of
Rome)

Really?

Caius Julius Ceasar spoke a "latin dialected" originated somewhere
east and south of Rome (is south of Latium, north of the Neapolitan
region)?
I didn't know that.

Post by f***@mail.com
about 2000 years ago, the inhabitants of the
British Isles spoke a Celtic language at that time that was not well
documented

I see.

Post by f***@mail.com
after the Romans left the British Isles about 410 AD, Danish influence began

"Vikings", I knew of.

Post by f***@mail.com
- the soft and hard "th" sounds (soft "th" as in "then" and hard "th" as in
"thank") were used by those early Viking invaders - today, only Icelandic

Exactly.

Post by f***@mail.com
out of all the Germanic and Scandinavian languages that influenced that
early English actually has both soft and hard "th" sounds - in fact, they
use completely separate letters in their alphabet to denote these two
different sounds - it is my understanding that Italian has no such sounds
then, after the invasion by William the Conquerer in 1066, significant
portions of English became influenced by French (mostly legal and military
terms)

The Battle of Hastings. I've been there.
Nice pier. A little to much the same as all others in the coastal
towns, though.

Post by f***@mail.com
Dutch, as the language used by the people of the Netherlands in modern
times, resembles English very closely - it does resemble German as well, but
as I posted before, in my experience, it resembles English more closely than
German (that is my opinion, of course)

That I cannot say. I do not know any Dutch.
Truth is, when I read Dutch, I recognize German words, and _then_
English words.
As German (Saxon?) is earlier formed than English, I think.

Post by f***@mail.com
now, regarding the relationship of Dutch and French (note that the word
"Dutsch" that you used is really not a spelling used by anyone in any

It was a mistype of mine. If've just corrected it on my own, a little
ago.

Post by f***@mail.com
language that I am aware of, so I am not aware of its existence in any
language) to Italian, it is clear that Italian (or, perhaps more accurately,
Latin) had an influence on English which must have occurred for a period of

Italian as Italian too, had quite an influence on English. Not as
strong as the French and as the Latin in first instance, I know. But
still, there has been some.

Post by f***@mail.com
- French, which directly influenced English by the influence of William the
Conquerer, which is derived from the old Gallic language (which is a Celtic
language) and Latin, brings the connection to today's Italian into view

Really, I know of just a few remnants of Gallic in the modern French
language, i.e. in some substantives of a certain specific logical
field (of which no example I'm able to recollect, sorry. I'd have to
look around in the web, looking for the page I've learned that thing
from).

Post by f***@mail.com
now, if you want to question the relevance of non-European languages, such
as Japanese, Turkish, Xhosa, or any of the "polynesian" languages in this
newsgroup, then I would more readily agree that they are questionably
relevant

Well. No.

Don't get me wrong, and don't let me get _you_ wrong.

What you saying now was not the reason why you came out with a useless
quote of my tagline then translated into French and Dutch.
Maybe it was just the feeling of the moment that took you by.


It doesn't really have to have an actual real reason, does it?

Just to start the conversation from scratch, on a serious common
basis.

Post by f***@mail.com
Giò

How do you expect me to grow, if you don't let me blow?
(Rachel a Ross, Friends 2x19)

[f***@mail.com]

On 8-Aug-2005, Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!
Really?
Caius Julius Ceasar spoke a "latin dialected" originated somewhere
east and south of Rome (is south of Latium, north of the Neapolitan
region)?
I didn't know that.

I am not absolutely sure about this, but I thought I learned about this
somewhere - I thought that the Romans were in some kind of constant
opposition againt the etruscans, ligurians, and some Celtic groups (e.g.,
alpine groups) etc. who occupied the parts of Italy north and west of Rome -
I really don't know where Caius Julius Caesar actually came from

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!
The Battle of Hastings. I've been there.
Nice pier. A little to much the same as all others in the coastal
towns, though.

if you went to Hastings, then maybe you also had a chance to visit Cornwall,
which is mostly farmers and ex-coal-miners, where you can visit a religious
island called Mount Saint Michael, somewhere near Penzance?

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!
That I cannot say. I do not know any Dutch.
Truth is, when I read Dutch, I recognize German words, and _then_
English words.
As German (Saxon?) is earlier formed than English, I think.

the type of German now used throughout Germany is called "High German"
because it originated in the high plateau area in southern Germany around
Munich - but when you listen to Germans in the northern areas, you will hear
slightly different dialects - if you travel towards the border with the
Netherlands, you can hear the gradual "low German" used by rural people,
going through Dusseldorf, and then to Arnhem in Netherlands - it is a quite
fascinating phenomenon in which German gradually becomes Dutch

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!

Post by f***@mail.com
- French, which directly influenced English by the influence of William the
Conquerer, which is derived from the old Gallic language (which is a Celtic
language) and Latin, brings the connection to today's Italian into view

Really, I know of just a few remnants of Gallic in the modern French
language, i.e. in some substantives of a certain specific logical
field (of which no example I'm able to recollect, sorry. I'd have to
look around in the web, looking for the page I've learned that thing
from).

the best way to discover the old language of Gaul is in the names of towns -
after Roman influence in Gaul from about 50BC to about 450AD, it is rare to
find any documents of the "French" language until well after Charlemagne,
who was actually a Germanic ruler (specifically a "Frank" from somewhere in
presentday Dusseldorf-lower Rhine area) - the first "French" of any kind was
written down after Charlemagne died in 814, when the Carolingian Empire was
divided among his three grandsons in 843 - the legal document was written in
"French" and "German" and was called the "Treaty of Verdun" - the middle
division, called "Royaume de Lothaire" (i.e., "Lothair's Kingdom") included
presentday Italy!

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!
What you saying now was not the reason why you came out with a useless
quote of my tagline then translated into French and Dutch.
Maybe it was just the feeling of the moment that took you by.
It doesn't really have to have an actual real reason, does it?

exactly correct - or, I mean, I agree totally


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[Adam Atkinson]

Hastings is nowhere near Cornwall. Over 5 hours by train, say.

[f***@mail.com]

they're both along the southern coast - that's what I meant


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[Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!]

Post by Adam Atkinson
Hastings is nowhere near Cornwall. Over 5 hours by train, say.

The same distance between the latins and the ligurians, I'd say!

:-)))

Post by Adam Atkinson
Giò

How do you expect me to grow, if you don't let me blow?
(Rachel a Ross, Friends 2x19)

[Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!]

Post by f***@mail.com
I am not absolutely sure about this, but I thought I learned about this
somewhere - I thought that the Romans were in some kind of constant
opposition againt the etruscans, ligurians, and some Celtic groups (e.g.,
alpine groups) etc. who occupied the parts of Italy north and west of Rome -
I really don't know where Caius Julius Caesar actually came from

Well, these groups you mentions (exept for the etruscans, wich I will
mention later) are far from Rome, to much to influence it.

While, it is said that the actual language of Virgilius (from Mantua,
northen Italy) and of Cicero (from Irpinia, near Naples, let's say)
were a little different from the actual right Latin.
This did oppose no threats to let them develop the highest level of
the Latin language.

While the etruscan where already so connected with the roman
civilization, having concurred to build up the very basis of its
society (customs, holidays, religions, politic institutions, and of
course language) from the very beginning.
Two roman kings are for sure etruscan. The 5th and the 7th (the latest
one).

Post by f***@mail.com

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!
The Battle of Hastings. I've been there.
Nice pier. A little to much the same as all others in the coastal
towns, though.

if you went to Hastings, then maybe you also had a chance to visit Cornwall,

No, what a pity. I was too young a) to have already developed some
kind of insterest in things like that b) to have that kind of liberty
(the actual schedule did not cover those sort of things).

Post by f***@mail.com
which is mostly farmers and ex-coal-miners, where you can visit a religious
island called Mount Saint Michael, somewhere near Penzance?

Mount Saint Michael (which I remember for being the scenario for a
very beautiful advertisment of an Alfa Romeo car, back in the 90s) is
in France, though still in the English Channel (i.e. La Manche).
Not in England.

Of Cornwall, I remember Guinevre, king Arthur's wife, was native of
those places...maybe even princess of that.

Post by f***@mail.com

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!
That I cannot say. I do not know any Dutch.
Truth is, when I read Dutch, I recognize German words, and _then_
English words.
As German (Saxon?) is earlier formed than English, I think.

the type of German now used throughout Germany is called "High German"
because it originated in the high plateau area in southern Germany around
Munich - but when you listen to Germans in the northern areas, you will hear
slightly different dialects - if you travel towards the border with the

I would not be capable to dinstinguish German dialect, methink.

For me, it's a much lower specific knowledge that which drives these
toughts and recognitions.

Post by f***@mail.com

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!

Post by f***@mail.com
- French, which directly influenced English by the influence of William the
Conquerer, which is derived from the old Gallic language (which is a Celtic
language) and Latin, brings the connection to today's Italian into view

Really, I know of just a few remnants of Gallic in the modern French
language, i.e. in some substantives of a certain specific logical
field (of which no example I'm able to recollect, sorry. I'd have to
look around in the web, looking for the page I've learned that thing
from).

the best way to discover the old language of Gaul is in the names of towns -

YES! THAT WAS IT!

Post by f***@mail.com
Giò

How do you expect me to grow, if you don't let me blow?
(Rachel a Ross, Friends 2x19)

[f***@mail.com]

On 8-Aug-2005, Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!

Post by f***@mail.com
which is mostly farmers and ex-coal-miners, where you can visit a religious
island called Mount Saint Michael, somewhere near Penzance?

Mount Saint Michael (which I remember for being the scenario for a
very beautiful advertisment of an Alfa Romeo car, back in the 90s) is
in France, though still in the English Channel (i.e. La Manche).
Not in England.

uh, actually, the most famous French travel spot called "Mont Saint Michel"
is just off the coast of Normandy and its address is in Normandy, which I
know well - the road that leads to it comes from near Avranches in Brittany

but this Mont Saint Michel is NOT the same as "Mount Saint Michael" that is
near Penzance in Cornwall - they are very far apart - one is next to the
French coast, the other is next to the British coast - I found this out when
looked up "Mont Saint Michel" in my father's cheap encyclopedia, which
described the one near Penzance

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!
Of Cornwall, I remember Guinevre, king Arthur's wife, was native of
those places...maybe even princess of that.

King Arthur was supposed to exist around 500 AD, after the Romans left, but
before the Danish took over the British Isles - it is said to be a legend,
but could still be proven as a fact - we don't quite know...yet

Fran


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[Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!]

Post by f***@mail.com
but this Mont Saint Michel is NOT the same as "Mount Saint Michael" that is
near Penzance in Cornwall - they are very far apart - one is next to the

ah. just a "u" of difference.

I didn't know that.

Post by f***@mail.com

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!
Of Cornwall, I remember Guinevre, king Arthur's wife, was native of
those places...maybe even princess of that.

King Arthur was supposed to exist around 500 AD, after the Romans left, but
before the Danish took over the British Isles - it is said to be a legend,
but could still be proven as a fact - we don't quite know...yet

they must be still waiting for his return, are they not? ;-)

Post by f***@mail.com
Giò

How do you expect me to grow, if you don't let me blow?
(Rachel a Ross, Friends 2x19)

[f***@mail.com]

On 8-Aug-2005, Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!

Post by f***@mail.com

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!
Of Cornwall, I remember Guinevre, king Arthur's wife, was native of
those places...maybe even princess of that.

King Arthur was supposed to exist around 500 AD, after the Romans left, but
before the Danish took over the British Isles - it is said to be a legend,
but could still be proven as a fact - we don't quite know...yet

they must be still waiting for his return, are they not? ;-)

ha! - that's right! - and maybe for Robin Hood too


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[Mary Cassidy]

Post by f***@mail.com
point #1: I am interested in linguistics, especially as it applies to
technical subject matter (e.g., patents) and, preferably in English (but not
necessarily only in English!)
point #2: in seeking out relevant newsgroups, this one appears to be the
most active of the few I came across at this time, using my newsgroup
provider, 100proofnews
the major problem I am now encountering is my lack of any substantial
experience in Italian, neither speaking nor writing nor reading - however, I
am certainly willing to learn!

Not trying to drive you away, obviously, but if you want to have a look
at some English-speaking groups too, you could try sci.lang and
alt.usage.english.

Sci.lang is probably what you're looking for.

There's also it.cultura.linguistica, but people mainly post in Italian
there.

[f***@mail.com]

Post by Mary Cassidy
Not trying to drive you away, obviously, but if you want to have a look
at some English-speaking groups too, you could try sci.lang and
alt.usage.english.
Sci.lang is probably what you're looking for.
There's also it.cultura.linguistica, but people mainly post in Italian
there.
--
Mary

thanks, Mary! - I am checking them out now - my newsgroup server lets me
know the number of messages in the newsgroups I am checking - this lets me
know the level of activity - this one (it.cultura.linguistica.inglese) is
very active

take care,
Fran


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[Enrico C]

Post by f***@mail.com
thanks, Mary! - I am checking them out now - my newsgroup server lets me
know the number of messages in the newsgroups I am checking - this lets me
know the level of activity - this one (it.cultura.linguistica.inglese) is
very active

He he, we are happy talkers!

Pun intended! :-)

[f***@mail.com]

On 6-Aug-2005, Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!
Neither Italian is the same thing as French or Spanish, but you have
to admit there are similarities.
So deep that usually if an Italian talks to a Spaniard slowly in a
simple Italian, the latter can understand virtually without any
problem.
And viceversa.

please note that you initially compared Italian with both French and
Spanish, but then you only asserted that Italians and Spaniards can
understand each other

the assertion you made does not quite apply to Italians and Frenchmen, since
Italians cannot understand Frenchmen and vice versus - however, if you
compare the Frenchmen of the Languedoc region (southern and, especially,
southeastern France, such as Marseilles) with Italian, then you may find a
closer resemblance - you may notice this resemblence in the incredibly
beautiful movies called "Jean de Florette" and "Manon de la Source" with
Yves Montand

the northern French do not speak a dialect that can be understood by
Italians, and vice versus

Fran


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[Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!]

Post by f***@mail.com
please note that you initially compared Italian with both French and
Spanish, but then you only asserted that Italians and Spaniards can
understand each other

Right.

I was talking about /oral/ understanding.

The French fonetics are somehow a little more difficult to catch than
the Spanish ones. At least it seems so, for us Italians.

Post by f***@mail.com
the assertion you made does not quite apply to Italians and Frenchmen, since
Italians cannot understand Frenchmen and vice versus - however, if you
compare the Frenchmen of the Languedoc region (southern and, especially,
southeastern France, such as Marseilles) with Italian, then you may find a
closer resemblance - you may notice this resemblence in the incredibly
beautiful movies called "Jean de Florette" and "Manon de la Source" with
Yves Montand
the northern French do not speak a dialect that can be understood by
Italians, and vice versus

Can't follow you here.


bye

Post by f***@mail.com
Giò

How do you expect me to grow, if you don't let me blow?
(Rachel a Ross, Friends 2x19)

[f***@mail.com]

On 8-Aug-2005, Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!

Post by Enas Kwizach Haderach akoma pio apotelesmatikos!

Post by f***@mail.com
the assertion you made does not quite apply to Italians and Frenchmen, since
Italians cannot understand Frenchmen and vice versus - however, if you
compare the Frenchmen of the Languedoc region (southern and, especially,
southeastern France, such as Marseilles) with Italian, then you may find a
closer resemblance - you may notice this resemblence in the incredibly
beautiful movies called "Jean de Florette" and "Manon de la Source" with
Yves Montand
the northern French do not speak a dialect that can be understood by
Italians, and vice versus

Can't follow you here.

It is my understanding that regional dialects can vary considerably in large
European countries, such as France and Italy (and even Netherlands as well!)
- in France, there are two general dialects called "Langue d'Oui" and
"Langue d'Oc" - these broadly described dialects of French refer to the
manner in which a person says the word "yes" - in the northern part of
France, where people say "oui" in an affirmative response or expression,
this is called "Langue d'Oui" (or languedoui) - in the southern part of
France, where many rural people used to say "oc" instead of "oui" until
about the seventeenth century (i.e., 1600's), the regional dialect is
broadly referred to as "Langue d'Oc" or "languedoc", see
http://www.the-languedoc-page.com/

try to see the DVDs of "Jean de Florette" or "Manon de la Source" with Yves
Montand (a great Italian actor who did French movies) which is supposed to
have taken place somewhere just north of Marseilles, where the French sounds
a lot more like Italian

I hope this explanation helps

alla volta prossima


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[f***@mail.com]

Post by f***@mail.com
in the southern part of
France, where many rural people used to say "oc" instead of "oui" until
about the seventeenth century (i.e., 1600's), the regional dialect is
broadly referred to as "Langue d'Oc" or "languedoc", see
http://www.the-languedoc-page.com/

well, it looks like "Langue d'Oc" means "language of occitan" - I am not
sure whether people there actually said "oc" instead of "oui" at all - but
I'd like to know...


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