Con i se e con i ma non si fa la storia

Post by Massy
come tradurreste la frase in oggetto in inglese nel modo più "letterale"
possibile ma con risultato che sia "credibile"?
"with if and with but did not make history"?
"with perhaps did not make the history"?
Boh!
Grazie.

If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

<
http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/47182/origin-of-the-idiom-if-ifs-
and-buts-were-candy-and-nuts>

and

< http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2144764>

--
Joey from New York
Among those whom I like or admire, I can find no common denominator,
but among those whom I love, I can: all of them make me laugh.
-- WH Auden

Massy

2012-11-02 19:49:09 UTC

Post by Joe from NY
If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry
Christmas.

Non è molto "letterale", ma grazie mille! :-)

--
Massy

Joe from NY

2012-11-03 19:23:26 UTC

Post by Joe from NY
If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

Non è molto "letterale", ma grazie mille! :-)

No, it's not too literal, but the expression is somewhat obscure and isn't
very common in English, to my knowledge.

A literal translation, "You don't make history with 'ifs' and 'buts' " has
*about* the same meaning ("Don't make excuses for your shortcomings") but is
much less colorful, IMHO.

--
Joey from New York
Among those whom I like or admire, I can find no common denominator,
but among those whom I love, I can: all of them make me laugh.
-- WH Auden

Massy

2012-11-02 19:48:28 UTC

Post by Massy
come tradurreste la frase in oggetto in inglese nel modo più
"letterale" possibile ma con risultato che sia "credibile"?
"with if and with but did not make history"?
"with perhaps did not make the history"?
Boh!
Grazie.

Non è molto "letterale", ma grazie mille! :-)

--
Massy

Tony the Ice Man

2012-11-02 20:15:43 UTC

Post by Massy
come tradurreste la frase in oggetto in inglese nel modo più
"letterale" possibile ma con risultato che sia "credibile"?
"with if and with but did not make history"?
"with perhaps did not make the history"?
Boh!
Grazie.

Non è molto "letterale", ma grazie mille! :-)

Allora, letteralmente,

With 'ifs' and 'buts' one doesn't make history.

O meno litteralmente, ma meglio per capire il senso,

One doesn't make history with 'ifs' and 'buts.'

Massy

2012-11-03 17:44:20 UTC

Post by Massy
come tradurreste la frase in oggetto in inglese nel modo più
"letterale" possibile ma con risultato che sia "credibile"?
"with if and with but did not make history"?
"with perhaps did not make the history"?
Boh!
Grazie.

Non è molto "letterale", ma grazie mille! :-)

Allora, letteralmente,
With 'ifs' and 'buts' one doesn't make history.
O meno litteralmente, ma meglio per capire il senso,
One doesn't make history with 'ifs' and 'buts.'

Perfetto!
Grazie mille ad entrambi! ;-)

--
Massy

Archaeopteryx

2012-11-03 22:15:40 UTC

Post by Tony the Ice Man
Allora, letteralmente,
With 'ifs' and 'buts' one doesn't make history.
O meno litteralmente, ma meglio per capire il senso,
One doesn't make history with 'ifs' and 'buts.'

quello che trovo interessante è: come viene percepito da
un parlante di madrelingua? Un uso creativo/sofisticato
dell'inglese o si sente proprio che è un "idiom" portato
da un'altra lingua?

ciao!

Apx.

Tony the Ice Man

2012-11-03 22:50:58 UTC

Post by Archaeopteryx

Post by Tony the Ice Man
Allora, letteralmente,
With 'ifs' and 'buts' one doesn't make history.
O meno letteralmente, ma meglio per capire il senso,
One doesn't make history with 'ifs' and 'buts.'

quello che trovo interessante è: come viene percepito da
un parlante di madrelingua? Un uso creativo/sofisticato
dell'inglese o si sente proprio che è un "idiom" portato
da un'altra lingua?

Non è un'idioma inglese ma se vuoi diffondere le parole, hanno senso e
possono diventare un'idioma senza problema. Ma in realità, le idiome
inglesi sono più "folksy" come "Ifs and buts won't change the world."

edevils

2012-11-05 08:13:15 UTC

Anche: se mio nonno avesse le ruote, sarebbe una carriola!

ADPUF

2012-11-05 22:05:24 UTC

Post by edevils
Anche: se mio nonno avesse le ruote, sarebbe una carriola!

Io la sapevo come
"se mia nonna avesse le ruote sarebbe un tram."

:-)

--
The brotherhood of man is not a mere poet's dream; it is a most
depressing and humiliating reality.
-- Oscar Wilde

Massy

2012-11-06 00:04:19 UTC

Post by edevils
Anche: se mio nonno avesse le ruote, sarebbe una carriola!

Io la sapevo come
"se mia nonna avesse le ruote sarebbe un tram."
:-)

Io sapevo:
"se mio nonno avesse avuto tre palle sarebbe stato un flipper"

--
Massy

Joe from NY

2012-11-06 01:08:03 UTC

Post by edevils
Anche: se mio nonno avesse le ruote, sarebbe una carriola!

Io la sapevo come
"se mia nonna avesse le ruote sarebbe un tram."

Post by edevils
-)

"se mio nonno avesse avuto tre palle sarebbe stato un flipper"

"Balls!" said the Queen. "If I had two I'd be King."

--
Joey from New York
Among those whom I like or admire, I can find no common denominator,
but among those whom I love, I can: all of them make me laugh.
-- WH Auden

2012-11-06 13:17:03 UTC

Post by edevils
Anche: se mio nonno avesse le ruote, sarebbe una carriola!

Io la sapevo come
"se mia nonna avesse le ruote sarebbe un tram."
:-)

Oppure "Se mia nonna avesse le palle avrei tre nonni".

G

ADPUF

2012-11-03 22:43:34 UTC

Post by Massy
come tradurreste la frase in oggetto in inglese nel modo più
"letterale" possibile ma con risultato che sia "credibile"?
"with if and with but did not make history"?
"with perhaps did not make the history"?
Boh!
Grazie.

Non è molto "letterale", ma grazie mille! :-)

Allora, letteralmente,
With 'ifs' and 'buts' one doesn't make history.
O meno litteralmente, ma meglio per capire il senso,
One doesn't make history with 'ifs' and 'buts.'

"One doesn't make pens with whens and thens."
(My creation, does that means anything? :-)

--
Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member
of Congress. But I repeat myself.
-- Mark Twain

Tony the Ice Man

2012-11-03 23:20:42 UTC

Post by Massy
come tradurreste la frase in oggetto in inglese nel modo più
"letterale" possibile ma con risultato che sia "credibile"?
"with if and with but did not make history"?
"with perhaps did not make the history"?
Boh!
Grazie.

Non è molto "letterale", ma grazie mille! :-)

Allora, letteralmente,
With 'ifs' and 'buts' one doesn't make history.
O meno letteralmente, ma meglio per capire il senso,
One doesn't make history with 'ifs' and 'buts.'

"One doesn't make pens with whens and thens."
(My creation, does that means anything? :-)

Not really. But then, one doesn't make pies with hows and whys.

Massy

2012-11-04 04:45:09 UTC

Post by Massy
come tradurreste la frase in oggetto in inglese nel modo più
"letterale" possibile ma con risultato che sia "credibile"?
"with if and with but did not make history"?
"with perhaps did not make the history"?
Boh!
Grazie.

Non è molto "letterale", ma grazie mille! :-)

Allora, letteralmente,
With 'ifs' and 'buts' one doesn't make history.
O meno litteralmente, ma meglio per capire il senso,
One doesn't make history with 'ifs' and 'buts.'

"One doesn't make pens with whens and thens."

Non si fanno le penne con i quando e gli allora?!?!
Non ho capito cosa volessi intendere...

--
Massy

Joe from NY

2012-11-04 12:55:19 UTC

Post by Massy
come tradurreste la frase in oggetto in inglese nel modo più
"letterale" possibile ma con risultato che sia "credibile"?
"with if and with but did not make history"?
"with perhaps did not make the history"?
Boh!
Grazie.

Non è molto "letterale", ma grazie mille! :-)

Allora, letteralmente,
With 'ifs' and 'buts' one doesn't make history.
O meno litteralmente, ma meglio per capire il senso,
One doesn't make history with 'ifs' and 'buts.'

"One doesn't make pens with whens and thens."

Non si fanno le penne con i quando e gli allora?!?!
Non ho capito cosa volessi intendere...

Nor do I. The original meaning is lost here. These are cutesy rhyming
phrases, but none of them carry the original meaning.

"If" and "but" are words used to excuse oneself from failures...
"If I had xxx I would have done it..."
"But I tried my best..."

Words that are used in the face of one's shortcomings.

There's another English-language saying that expresses a similar thought:

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. (No it doesn't rhyme; it's not
meant to.)

IOW: Get real and face the facts of your own responsibilities.

--
Joey from New York
Among those whom I like or admire, I can find no common denominator,
but among those whom I love, I can: all of them make me laugh.
-- WH Auden

Massy

2012-11-04 17:50:51 UTC

Post by Joe from NY
"If" and "but" are words used to excuse oneself from failures...
"If I had xxx I would have done it..."
"But I tried my best..."

Non necessariamente!
Puoi anche dire, ad es.:
"Se fossi nato ricco la mia vita sarebbe stata più facile/sarei stato più
felice"
"Se mia moglie non mi avesse tradito ora sarei ancora felicemnte sposato"
"Se l'america non avesse vinto la guerra ora la germania governerebbe
l'europa"
ecc. ecc. ecc.

Post by Joe from NY
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. (No it doesn't rhyme; it's
not meant to.)
IOW: Get real and face the facts of your own responsibilities.

Se i desideri fossero cavalli, gli accattoni vorrebbero cavalcare?
Mi sfugge il senso... Significa che gli accattoni seguono sempre e ad ogni
costo i loro sogni?
Però non capisco come possa sottintendere "prenditi le tue responsabilità"
Boh!

--
Massy

Joe from NY

2012-11-04 17:57:39 UTC

Post by Joe from NY
"If" and "but" are words used to excuse oneself from failures...
"If I had xxx I would have done it..."
"But I tried my best..."

Non necessariamente!
"Se fossi nato ricco la mia vita sarebbe stata più facile/sarei stato più
felice"

Failure on the part of Fate: you were not born rich. I'm blaming Fate, not
myself for making my life easier or myself happier.

Post by Massy
"Se mia moglie non mi avesse tradito ora sarei ancora felicemnte sposato"

Faillure on your wife's part for not staying faithful (or your own part for
not keeping her satisfied.)

Post by Massy
"Se l'america non avesse vinto la guerra ora la germania governerebbe
l'europa"

It doesn't fit every occasion... :)

Post by Massy
ecc. ecc. ecc.

Post by Joe from NY
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. (No it doesn't rhyme; it's
not meant to.)
IOW: Get real and face the facts of your own responsibilities.

Maybe it's clearer with the insertion of "even": If wishes were horses,
/even/ beggars would [be able to] ride.

If all one had to do was wish for something (in this case, a horse) even
people without means would be able to ride.

< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_wishes_were_horses,_beggars_would_ride>

--
Joey from New York
Among those whom I like or admire, I can find no common denominator,
but among those whom I love, I can: all of them make me laugh.
-- WH Auden

Massy

2012-11-04 18:06:22 UTC

Post by Joe from NY
Maybe it's clearer with the insertion of "even": If wishes were
horses, /even/ beggars would [be able to] ride.
If all one had to do was wish for something (in this case, a horse)
even people without means would be able to ride.
<
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_wishes_were_horses,_beggars_would_ride>

Ah ok! Ora è molto più chiaro!

--
Massy

ADPUF

2012-11-04 22:58:46 UTC

Post by Joe from NY